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Old 05-16-2016, 09:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by DrDaveMA View Post
So the assembly line worker thinks that it is funny that new owners are plagued with rattles, so much so that they don't buy another Ford, sales go down and workers are laid off. Yep, I understand that logic?????
Stupid people do not understand logic. If they did, they would be glad to have a good paying job, and would do every thing in their power to make the customer happy.

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Old 05-16-2016, 10:31 AM   #30
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I read somewhere that most people don't quit their job, they quit their boss. I'm about to the point that I don't give a flying south end of a rat. Our "new boss" tells us to start coming in at a "certain time" We come in the next day at that "certain time" and he asks what the balankety blank are we doing. It used to not be that way but it is now and that stuff just gets old, so I imagine that alot of poor quality is that kind of stuff like that.

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Old 05-16-2016, 10:40 AM   #31
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RV company's have white collar and blue collar people. The white collar have company responsibility for image ,growth and quality products. The blue collar people take direction and inspiration from the white collar people. And that should mean good work and pride.
What seems strange is we have a high unemployment level and management people don't have better control over quality.
Someone who operates a business told me his biggest problem is having workers show up for work every day. I'd can the dregs and ensure the workers that are on the job do good work. I ran a business and required good work and no come-backs. Yes, I sent employees packing that didn't perform to my standards. Maybe I'm old school and don't understand today's business philosophy.

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Old 05-16-2016, 11:57 AM   #32
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my first real pop up was made by forest river. The build quality was such that I refused to even consider a forest river product when I moved up to a larger camper. It wasn't big things...it was all the little things that did it for me. How hard is it to drive a screw in straight? Evidently almost impossible at forest river.

That all being said I went with KZ and have been impressed with their build quality. We've had it 6 years now and everything has held together nicely and whoever put the screws in this thing actually used both eyes when doing so. I haven't found any that were on a 45 degree angle like the forest river folks like to do.
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Old 05-16-2016, 12:59 PM   #33
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We need someone who has actually worked the line to comment.
When you pay people by the hour, but incent them to do work quickly (production quotas), have limited quality inspections and you know what those inspections are going to be, well, you're going to get exactly what you're paying for.

The result is that many defects are pushed off on end dealers. These dealers often get paid less for warranty work (some brands) than they do for end-consumer repairs - so you're creating a situation where warranty work is the least preferential to the business... Repairs in my area often take 30-60 days, and even in the most extreme quality cases, that's a very select number of repairs until you've exhausted a 12-month warranty.

And us consumers typically don't know any better. And we buy RVs so infrequently that it's hard to gauge what impact the lack of quality will have on any brand loyalty.

Until there is a fiscal connection to the bottom line that companies like Thor can see, they'll continue to operate in this manner.
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:00 PM   #34
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When Mfgr's ship crap they hope it gets un detected by the user. If it's picked up the warranty work is performed by the dealer . That's a good thing for the manufacturer because it cost's him less to get repairs done. The mfgr. may pay a line worker 20 bucks an hour but by the time it's all said and done with benefits and payroll taxes the hourly cost skyrockets to more than double that amount. Warranty work paid by the mfgr is way way less than that. So, there's a net savings.
Wonder why a dealer takes so long to fix problem's, simple, do the math. The dealer makes more profit doing his own work and we get pushed off.
We joke about used car salesmen, but RV mfgr's are worst.

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Old 05-16-2016, 06:46 PM   #35
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I`ve said it before when the Japanese see enough money in RV`s all this will change. At my age one more RV and I`ll be done, and will probably miss it.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:42 PM   #36
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BSH I think your right on,,, That happened to the US car market. When the Japanese set up plants here and started to gain market share with better quality products the US automakers had to sharpen their game and started to make better cars. That sure would straighten out the RV schlock's.

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Old 05-16-2016, 07:51 PM   #37
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RV manufacturing is under the direction of three or four major companies. The days of quality built and customer service ended 10-20 years ago. Most manufacturers list their products so high and dealer' sell them at such a 20-40% mark down they make you think your getting such a bargain.
My son bought a brand new fifth wheel from one of the Forest River companies and has had nothing but problems. The list includes water running through the windows, walls and front cap, numerous large bubbles on the roof (have gotten bigger over time), main entry door closing issue lack of heat in the rear area and other issue.
While the dealership he purchased it from has helped a bit and say it's not their fault. They caulked where they were able and did a questionable job at best. The water in the walls does not seem to be of concern to them. They insist that the bubbles on the roof are completely normal. They have consulted with Forest River has informed them they will note the problems but will provide any additional repairs but will note the problems in files for future reference (ya right!).
I think like another responder made if the Japanese or Korean manufactures ever decided to enter the RV market quality and customer service would improve dramatically.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:11 PM   #38
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I think every post here so far has it pretty much nailed. The manufacturers know all these things too, it will take something drastic to change everything. I just wish for once it didn't have to be a foreign entity to get the ball rolling.

Common sense is not too common, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. We've seen well intentioned management "save money" by ordering a huge shipment of cheaper inferior components, instead of the quality higher cost components...(once and done). Only to cost the company five times or more that amount in warranty (and beyond) repairs going on for years after delivery. To top that off, the "bonus" of ticked off customers, damaged company reputation, AND the loss of his own job. Sorry, I don't get it.

Anyone ever hear the Johnny Cash song "Wednesday Car"? I think the content of that song applies here. I have commented before in a related thread......I've wondered if possibly some RV factory workers might have a tad bit of animosity toward the eventual buyer. Like, this particular worker cannot presently afford "one of these", and purposely does a crappy job in spite. At least until he's found out, then reprimanded or fired. But how many get out the door before that? It may be more common than you think.

I know the above statement is not a good example of "faith in your fellow man". I do try to look for the good in someone first. But, at the same time, I also come up with these thoughts by observing people. So there you go.

Listen to the song. I hope my coach was made on Wednesday.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:34 PM   #39
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I bet 1/2 the workers live in trailers.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Westwind View Post
Don't blame the guy putting the screw in blame management that allows that type of work and doesn't inspect the final product to be sure that it was assembled to acceptable standards. It's evident when you look a many of today's RV products that acceptable quality control after assembly doesn't take place. The auto industry really makes the RV industry look like a bunch of hacks and thats not saying much.
The small companies that took pride in their product have gone out of business because they couldn't handle the so called cost of producing a quality product.
I agree with you 100%. It isn't the assembly worker that is responsible for some of the crap these companies let out the door. It is management at the top that lets it out of the plant. The assembler is told that they have a certain amount of time to do a job and that's it.
When dealers buy from RV makers, the PDI cost the dealer is supposed to perform is built into this cost. Most dealers DON'T do PDI. It is pure gravy for them. It is cheaper for them to do a repair if the customer finds a flaw. Otherwise "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie". It all boils down to "Buyer Beware"! Do your homework before signing on the dotted line.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:26 AM   #41
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I do think the dealers get screwed by the mfgrs. to some extent. OTOH, most dealerships seem to be successful businesses. The mfgrs. would be powerless if the dealerships got together to force a particular product line to improve, but then prices would have to go up. Perhaps I should stay in my own lane, i.e., retirement!
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:12 AM   #42
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It's a win win for the MFG rolling out crap. They can pay the dealer less to get it fixed or hope that the seller will fix it on his own because he doesn't want to take it in and hassle with an incompetent dealer.
I've had parts sent to me from the MFG so I could fix problems myself.

So why should the MFG be concerned about rolling out the perfect RV? Down the road someone else will take care of the problems.

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