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Old 07-15-2011, 09:01 AM   #15
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they do have 3 axle's with LR-H tires.

us personally, we were interested in the Portland, but we are more interested in one of the 38' models. we're also looking at HitchHikers. stopping at their plant next year when we go to Texas. Right now we're just looking around at a few manufacturers (Newmar, DRV and NuWa).

BTW - MY F-450 has 14.5K GVWR and (I looked back and have 4:88 gears) thus I have a 33K GCWR. New F-450's do not have that GVWR anymore. The new ones are in the high 13K range.

WRT to the 43' models (for the benefit of the OP) - based on my math (the scales put my truck at 10K ready to tow and using 25% of weight on the pin) I would be over the GVWR by 1K #'s and right at the GCWR. That said, we decided that the 38 footer is better suited.
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Old 07-15-2011, 11:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Star View Post
they do have 3 axle's with LR-H tires.

us personally, we were interested in the Portland, but we are more interested in one of the 38' models. we're also looking at HitchHikers. stopping at their plant next year when we go to Texas. Right now we're just looking around at a few manufacturers (Newmar, DRV and NuWa).

BTW - MY F-450 has 14.5K GVWR and (I looked back and have 4:88 gears) thus I have a 33K GCWR. New F-450's do not have that GVWR anymore. The new ones are in the high 13K range.

WRT to the 43' models (for the benefit of the OP) - based on my math (the scales put my truck at 10K ready to tow and using 25% of weight on the pin) I would be over the GVWR by 1K #'s and right at the GCWR. That said, we decided that the 38 footer is better suited.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Your truck's GVWR is 14.5k but that is not it's towing capacity. What does the truck's GVWR have to do with whether or not it can handle towing 24k lbs. Seems to me that if your truck's chassis is rated to pull 24k and your brakes (on the truck and the trailer) can handle stopping it, then that is what matters, assuming you do not exceed the trucks GCWR of 33k.

What am I missing?
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:35 AM   #17
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You have two (2) factors to consider here.

1. What can the truck PULL?

2. What can the truck CARRY?

A manufacturer's trailer tow rating (a fictitious rating for reasons we can discuss later) is calculated as the trucks's GCWR minus its curb weight. That is used to determine what the truck can PULL.

With a 5th wheel, however, approximately 20% of the 5th wheel's loaded weight will be transferred to the truck as pin weight. The truck has to be able to CARRY this weight in addition to its own weight and that of its passengers, cargo, accessories (like a 5th wheel hitch), options, etc. What the truck can CARRY is calculated as the truck's GVWR minus its curb weight. The manufacturer will publish this as payload rating, but that number is fictitious as well since (as in the trailer tow rating) the manufacturer uses the curb weight of a base model truck (no options or accessories) with only a 150 pound driver as the curb weight for calculation purposes.

For your sizing purposes, the following formulas provide a conservative approach (truck's laden curb weight as used below is the actual measured scale weight of the truck with all occupants, full fuel tanks, all accessories and options just like you'll be hitting the road):

Maximum allowable total laden weight of trailer = Truck's GCWR minus Truck's laden curb weight

Maximum allowable pin weight of loaded trailer = Truck's GVWR minus Truck's laden curb weight

Again, for sizing purposes, you can use the 5th wheel's GVWR as its total laden weight and 20% of the 5th wheel's GVWR as its laden pin weight.

You'll notice these formulas do not address the truck's GAWRs (gross axle weight ratings), but if you're within the GVWR, you should be OK with the GAWRs.

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Old 07-16-2011, 08:13 AM   #18
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I get it

Excellent Weight For Dummies explanation Rusty. Thank you!

So, if I buy a 2008 F450 with a GVWR of 14.5k and tow capacity of 24.5k...

My 5er GVWR is 24k

I would not pull GVWR as I would not pull with full tanks. So, assuming I pull 22k, the weight on the trucks GVWR would be 4.4k.

14.5-4.4k = 10.1k still gives me plenty of room there.

I am slightly under the trucks towing capacity, so I should be okay there as well.

So, a F450 2008 should be able to PULL and CARRY my 5er, it seems.

Now, is there a law requiring someone with a GCWR that high to possess a CDL??
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Old 07-16-2011, 08:16 AM   #19
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I answered the CDL question...it appears if my GCWR is over 26001 then I need a class A CDL.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:23 AM   #20
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most states i have looked at exempt rv's from a cdl requirement. check out the state website to verify. you may have to do some digging as it may not be shown in the motor vehicle manual.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:47 AM   #21
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In Texas, you'd need a NON-COMMERCIAL Class A license for GCWR > 26,001 lbs and towed load > 10,000 lbs.

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Old 07-16-2011, 12:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khenson View Post
Excellent Weight For Dummies explanation Rusty. Thank you!

So, if I buy a 2008 F450 with a GVWR of 14.5k and tow capacity of 24.5k...

My 5er GVWR is 24k

I would not pull GVWR as I would not pull with full tanks. So, assuming I pull 22k, the weight on the trucks GVWR would be 4.4k.

14.5-4.4k = 10.1k still gives me plenty of room there.

I am slightly under the trucks towing capacity, so I should be okay there as well.

So, a F450 2008 should be able to PULL and CARRY my 5er, it seems.

Now, is there a law requiring someone with a GCWR that high to possess a CDL??
Since you don't know the weight of the truck empty, you can't be sure you will have "plenty of room." Ford's are very heavy. If that F450 weighs in at 9k, which would not be unusual, that would leave 1.1K for EVERYTHING else...passengers, the hitch itself, cargo, tools, bed liner, tonneau cover, extra fuel, etc. 14.5 - 9.0 - 4.4 = 1.1


Here's one more formula for you.

Actual tow capacity equals the GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when ready to tow (loaded).
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:13 PM   #23
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i found this in the texas cdl manual is there something overrides this?

Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a
Commercial Driver License:

1. A vehicle that is controlled and operated by a farmer;
and used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery,
or farm supplies to or from a farm; and not used in
the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
used within 150 air miles of the person’s farm.

2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the
preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency
governmental functions, whether operated by an
employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire
fighter (this includes operators of industrial emergency
vehicles);

3. A military vehicle, when operated for military purposes
by military personnel, members of the Reserves and
National Guard on active duty, including personnel on
full-time National Guard duty, personnel on part-time
training, and National Guard military technicians; or
4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use.
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:35 PM   #24
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i found this in the texas cdl manual is there something overrides this?
If you're referring to my quote, you need to review the Texas Transportation Code. Title 7, Subtitle B, Chapter 522 deals with CDLs (commercial drivers' licenses). Since those of us who drive private RVs are NOT required to have CDLs (as you correctly quoted from the handbook), we fall under Title 7, Subtitle B, Chapter 521. Under Chapter 521 is Subchapter D as follows:

Quote:


SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES


Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:
(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or
(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and
(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.
(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.084. CLASS M LICENSE. A Class M driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate a motorcycle or moped.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
What I stated is consistent with Section 521.081.(2) above. A NON-COMMERCIAL Class A license is required for GCWRs equal to or greater than 26,001 lbs and towed load GVWRs greater than 10,000 lbs.

Your standard, run of the mill Class C Texas Driver's License falls under Section 521.083 above.

Rusty
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