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Old 08-10-2016, 11:25 PM   #1
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Recertified 5th wheel with larger axles???

I'm looking at an older 5th wheel with a GVWR of 6435lbs. It has been converted into a toy hauler and the fellow put an extra axle in so now it has three and they are all 7000lb axles.
My question is, can this 5th wheel be recertified with a higher GVWR or not? I'm in Canada if that helps.
It has electric brakes on all wheels and 16" tires load range E.
It's a 1991 32 footer.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:36 PM   #2
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Re-registration with higher GVWR , rules would vary from province to province.
Because the frame of the 5er hasn't changed , it's probably not possible.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:41 PM   #3
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Ok that's what I was thinking too.

I wonder what the old 5th wheels were built like compared to the new stuff. A lot of the time the old ones are built better than the new.
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:02 AM   #4
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I think Skip426 is right that the frame could be the limiting factor in the weight rating. The engineering department of the original manufacturer would have to get involved, and the original manufacturer would have to issue a new GVWR placard. I don't think a 3rd party would touch recertifiaction with a 10-foot pole.
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Old 08-11-2016, 04:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
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I think Skip426 is right that the frame could be the limiting factor in the weight rating. The engineering department of the original manufacturer would have to get involved, and the original manufacturer would have to issue a new GVWR placard. I don't think a 3rd party would touch recertifiaction with a 10-foot pole.

I believe the company has long been out of business. But it shouldn't be any different than certifying a car. People change rear ends and brakes all the time and get them certified. This is a just a trailer frame with rv stuff wrapped around it. I would imagine there is a formula or a certain type/size frame to compare weight to frame size.

Alot of these older RV's have serial numbers that have worn or faded away. Maybe the trailer could just get certified under a whole new serial number. I know I did that with an old snowmobile trailer years ago.
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Old 08-11-2016, 06:35 PM   #6
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If I built a trailer frame and had to get it certified, I'm sure those same people could recertify this thing "if" it meets the safety standards.

Does anyone out there know what size frames are on the older fifth wheels vs the new ones?
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Old 08-11-2016, 06:54 PM   #7
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The other thing I just thought of is that the old 3500lb axles were removed and 7000lb installed plus a 3rd axle and since it's unsprung weight if anything it just made the frame stronger by tying it together more as well as having an extra braking axle.
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Old 08-11-2016, 07:02 PM   #8
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Here in the US the only one that can recertifiy a rig is the original manufacturer. Went through that when they put a new higher rated front axle under our previous MH. They issued us a "Modified Vehicle" sticker. They wouldn't even let me put it on the MH, they had to do it.
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Old 08-11-2016, 07:13 PM   #9
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People change rear ends and brakes all the time and get them certified.
Lotta guys here in the US would like to think they can re-certify their 3/4 ton truck to be a 1 ton by adding a spring or two, but I've never seen anyone successfully get it recertified at a higher GVWR. I think it is more of a peace of mind effort.
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Old 08-11-2016, 07:31 PM   #10
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Recertified 5th wheel with larger axles???

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Originally Posted by Atom Ant View Post
Lotta guys here in the US would like to think they can re-certify their 3/4 ton truck to be a 1 ton by adding a spring or two, but I've never seen anyone successfully get it recertified at a higher GVWR. I think it is more of a peace of mind effort.

Lol I didn't mean it that way at all. What I meant is that when somebody buys a vehicle that is over 10 years old and has to get it safetied, it usually isn't a problem if they've changed the rear end or if they've upgraded the brakes from drums to discs. I said recertified what I meant to say safetied.

What I'm talking about is totally different than what you were talking about. You are using an extra leaf spring to add capacity and that's not what I'm saying in this case the frame and everything has stayed the same but the guy added heavier axles and more of them so possibly it could be recertified to a higher gvwr. ??
If all else fails's and I for some mysterious reason can't find the serial number...😜 then I could just bring it in and say I built the trailer and have them put a serial number and certify it which would be no different than somebody building a custom trailer because that's essentially what this is.
I just don't know the guide lines they use. i hope to find out tomorrow.

At the end of the day I just want it to be safe and legal.
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:52 PM   #11
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Ok so you've increased the overall weight of original trailer GVWR of 6435lbs with heavier axles, plus another axle and equip. Granted some of it is un-sprung, say -500# from CCC. What has been done to the hitch head and pin box, what are they rated at? Most weld failures I've witnessed on trailers whether bumper pull, goose neck or 5'r have been with the hitching end of the trailer. Please tell us you don't want to haul a car in in the garage.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:22 PM   #12
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Page two of this B.C. MOT document , in the first paragraph , simply states " The GVWR cannot exceed manufacturers specs." I take that as no re-certification. Special rules for home built UNDER a certain weigh , and that's where you got through with your old snowmobile trailer, they probably just ran it through as a home built.
I would think all provinces would have a similar rule.
I do know that when ICBC brought in rules requiring all home built trailers to have a safety inspection before they could be insured , a LOT of trailers were scrapped.
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File Type: pdf GVWR rules for B.C..pdf (190.2 KB, 2 views)
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:44 PM   #13
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Does the manufacturer make their own frame or are they using another supplier like Lippert? Lippert frames are generally certified to the mfgr's spec and not an ounce more. Some mfgrs build their own frames to a higher spec and may have more "headroom" for over spec loading..
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Old 08-11-2016, 11:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLNSMOKE View Post
I'm looking at an older 5th wheel with a GVWR of 6435lbs. It has been converted into a toy hauler and the fellow put an extra axle in so now it has three and they are all 7000lb axles.
My question is, can this 5th wheel be recertified with a higher GVWR or not? I'm in Canada if that helps.
It has electric brakes on all wheels and 16" tires load range E.
It's a 1991 32 footer.
Do you plan to load it up with toys anywhere close to the carrying capacity of those three axles? Me? I'd go find a real toy hauler that hasn't been modified; without any issues.
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