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dkperez · 11-10-2016, 06:55 PM

When picking up our Cougar 246RL yesterday from Hilltop, where they actually repaired a slide problem (different topic), the technician that worked on the trailer told me it was equipped with a Reese Revolution and it had never been made "operational"...

Unfortunately, when we bought the 5th wheel four years ago, we didn't know the thing even existed, and the dealer we purchased from (Noble RV in Owatonna MN) never mentioned the Revolution pin box, so we had NO IDEA we even had such a thing.

Anyhow, the technician unbolted the two bolts on the back, loosened the big bolt it turns on, and put the (it APPEARS y'all call it a wedge) in place so it would work on our 2016 Super Duty with the 6 3/4 foot bed with the Reese 25K hitch - it's the one Ford does that goes into the floor of the bed.

Anyhow, he lined me up and had me back on, and explained that the truck and the hitch have to be lined up EXACTLY for things to work, and that if you slam it into the wedge behind the pin it'll eventually get pushed back and not work correctly.....

Drove it the 70 miles home with no problem, backed it into the driveway for parking and it worked very nicely. Lots of clearance, very easy to position the trailer in the smallish space...

I'm going to take off alone this weekend, so I thought a little practice getting things lined up "perfectly" so I could connect might be in order...

It was NOT PRETTY......

I'm not going to say either of us is GREAT at attaching the truck to the 5th wheel, but we've been doing it for 20 years and it's never been much of a problem. Even at the fairly extreme angles we usually have to use, especially in the driveway, it's never been an issue...

I tried EIGHT times to get things lined up perfectly enough so I could get the thing to hook up. I don't think I ever got close.

Switched and had my wife try - she does at LEAST 90% of the driving when we travel (it's a long story, but leave it that as a photographer I LOOK AROUND a lot, and I apparently tend to STEER in the direction I'm looking... She drives). I always direct her, and she's very good at following my directions. We've backed small spaces with little problem, and generally get it placed in the driveway without much difficulty.

SO, I got her lined up perfectly. Or so I thought. Backed on, and NOPE. I'm guessing the fit was off a MAXIMUM of a quarter inch. Tried again. This time it touched the edge of the groove the kingpin slides into and changed the angle of the assembly. No fit. We tried for at LEAST and hour and a half - I have no idea how many times. It was absolutely so close I couldn't believe it didn't fit, but it absolutely didn't.

FINALLY, I must have accidentally gotten it just that last little bit of lined up, and it slid right in. But that's the ONLY time we got it to work.

The tech told me I should line it up by standing behind the pin box and look out at the truck. Backup and line it up and it should go on. Sounds EASY. And it may BE, but if so, it WASN'T easy for us.

On top of all that, this thing is a MAJOR pain in the rear-end to rotate. I've been using a 4 foot bar to move it, and even then it's very difficult. The technician sprayed some lube in the area where the pinbox rotates and told me it "should loosen up very shortly". And told me I could loosen it and grease everything once it was "moving freely". In my world that means the 70 miles to home then the maneuvering into the driveway. Just how long IS shortly?

Eventually, as the sun sank in the west and the night's gloom settled over us, I shoved it back straight and put the two bolts back into the housing so it CAN'T turn. And removed the wedge. I have no idea how to do this correctly, and I can't afford to spend a half day trying to line up perfectly to get the truck on when I'm traveling alone.

SO, CLEARLY we don't know something we need to - LIKE HOW DO I GET THIS &^%$#@@#$%^& THING TO BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO HOOK UP?

And is it SUPPOSED to require a 4 foot BAR to rotate?

In truth, we've never had a situation where we couldn't get this trailer into where we wanted, but the tech was SO positive about the improvement this pinbox would provide I figured it HAD to be a massive improvement. But not IF I CAN'T GET THE TRUCK HOOKED TO IT...

So, what don't we know that we SHOULD know?

magic43 · 11-10-2016, 08:24 PM

I removed my solid pin box and replaced it with a Sidewinder which is the retrofit version of the Revolution. I love it.

Without being there I can not address what your difficulty is but I hooked up well over a dozen times this year with no problem. I do have reference points that I align as I am backing up to the pin box.

The 4 bolts on my turret are torqued at 45 lbs. making it impossible for me to swing the pin box. Maybe when I was 50 years younger I could have but not now. Fact is, I have not seen/had the need to turn it.

At first I tried Slip Plate spray lube, but I now grease the king pin with a good red grease. I found that the greased pin seems to connect easier.

dkperez · 11-11-2016, 04:53 PM

If the kingpin is that round thing that sticks down from the box, mine is lubed with regular red grease. Without the Revolution pivoting OR have the wedge(?) on, it connects fine...

OK, so if you can't turn yours either, mayhap I SHOULDN'T be able to turn this thing. But, either way, it sounds like you're not having much trouble connecting, at least with a Sidewinder (I don't know how that differs from the Revolution, if it does), but I'm hoping somebody out there can tell me what I need to do to make this thing A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO USE...

I can put a line on the pin box, or a couple magnet poles that stick up or something, but are other people needing something to guide them so they're lined up perfectly?

In an old topic - from 2011 - there was discussion of some 3rd party wedge that supposedly made it easier to hook up, but I"m hoping this isn't another genius idea that works so poorly you need yet ANOTHER piece of equipment to make it actually work...Thoughts?

SkiSmuggs · 11-12-2016, 09:27 AM

I used to have a Sidewinder and other than once when the truck was angled downhill, I didn't have much problem with it. One possibility is that the wedge is too far forward and keeps the hitch from closing. Download instructions if you don't have them to get the torque specs and wedge installation instructions. Move the wedge to the rear about 1/4" and re-tighten. It wasn't the unlocking of the Revolution that is your problem, but the wedge installation. Once that is adjusted, it should close without slamming it.

One more thing: I could never rotate the Sidewinder by hand if the bolts were properly torqued. It became easy on a long trip, then I read the owner manual and found that I was supposed to re-torque the bolts every couple of thousand. The slop may have stressed the bolts as 2 of them broke a couple of years later. So read the owner manual!

Once I replaced the Sidewinder with a MorRyde (long story), I couldn't believe how much easier hooking up became. However, I lost the ability to turn 90 degrees and was limited to about 75 degrees. That has been rectified with an Andersen Ultimate which makes hooking up and disconnecting much easier and no chance of high hitching. But that would require re-locking or replacing the Revolution.

Old-Biscuit · 11-12-2016, 09:53 AM

Reese Video.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I6w04tAnm8

Reese Instructions....
http://www.towingproducts.net/applic...ons/NSW16K.pdf

Custom wedges are available to better match 5th wheel hitch....sound like you could use one. Doesn't sound like current one is right match for your brand of 5th wheel hitch
Custom wedge.....contact CPP Technical Service: 1-800-632-3290.

Also....did you torque those 3/4" lock out bolts to 275 ft-lbs as required??

When properly installed and set up for rotation...... rotation of the arm manually, is not expected.

SkiSmuggs · 11-12-2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Reese Instructions....
http://www.towingproducts.net/applic...ons/NSW16K.pdf

Custom wedges are available to better match 5th wheel hitch....sound like you could use one. Doesn't sound like current one is right match for your brand of 5th wheel hitch
Custom wedge.....contact CPP Technical Service: 1-800-632-3290.

Also....did you torque those 3/4" lock out bolts to 275 ft-lbs as required??

When properly installed and set up for rotation...... rotation of the arm manually, is not expected.

The lock-out bolts were removed by the tech to make the Revolution operational, so torque specs for them don't matter unless he wants to reinstall them. You are correct that manual rotation is probably not normal. While there are custom wedges and he should check for them, even the default wedge should work if it is not too far forward.
I had to find (hardware store) and install lockout bolts for mine when I got a new truck because I couldn't raise the pin box enough to level the fiver. The lock outs are normal used to deliver the trailer so adjustments don't have to be made for each delivery.
I saw a Revolution on a fiver once and it didn't look much like my Sidewinder so I don't know how much variance there may be manuals.

Old-Biscuit · 11-12-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiSmuggs

The lock-out bolts were removed by the tech to make the Revolution operational, so torque specs for them don't matter unless he wants to reinstall them. You are correct that manual rotation is probably not normal. While there are custom wedges and he should check for them, even the default wedge should work if it is not too far forward.
I had to find (hardware store) and install lockout bolts for mine when I got a new truck because I couldn't raise the pin box enough to level the fiver. The lock outs are normal used to deliver the trailer so adjustments don't have to be made for each delivery.
I saw a Revolution on a fiver once and it didn't look much like my Sidewinder so I don't know how much variance there may be manuals.

The OP re-installed the lock-out bolts.nuts & removed the wedge to make it a conventional pin box.......

Eventually, as the sun sank in the west and the night's gloom settled over us, I shoved it back straight and put the two bolts back into the housing so it CAN'T turn. And removed the wedge.

Sidewinder isaftermarket and Revolution is OEM---- use same install and same torque numbers

jackdn0610 · 11-12-2016, 03:06 PM

I ordered my 2011 Ford F350 DRW with the tow package and fifth wheel hitch. It came with the Reese 25K and that turned out to be the hitch from hell. I have had other Reese hitches on my other pickups, but this was the worst. It almost always took 2-3 tries before it would hitch properly. I finally gave up on it after 3 years and purchased a B&W hitch. No more frustrations...it hooks up everytime without any problems; and it unhitches easily.

dkperez · 11-14-2016, 08:16 PM

Yeah, I re-torqued them - although I used 250, not 275. And I didn't enjoy it at all!

And yes, I relocked it 'cause I was heading out for a few days by myself and needed to be able to hook up by myself without trying 15 times...

I don't know if all the Reese 25K hitches are the same or not. This one is the "special" one that attaches to the factory mounts in the Super Duty bed.

No, the wedge wasn't/isn't too far forward 'cause it hooked up at least twice. Its just turned out to be real b*tch to get things lined up so perfectly the truck would connect...

Maybe in the spring we'll try again.

SkiSmuggs · 11-15-2016, 06:51 AM

B&W makes a hitch that drops right into the factory pucks as do others. Etrailer.com is a good source and you can talk to them on the phone. When I picked up my then new fiver with the Sidewinder as a replacement for the Lippert pin box due to the 5'7" bed on my F150, they said that I needed to back into the pin with enthusiasm. I never felt that was a good idea and eventually found that lining up exactly was a better solution. I got close then sighted down the pin box arm from behind the truck and made adjustments until I got it right. I made sure the pin plate was about 1" below the top of the hitch plate to avoid high hitching. For my Reese 16K hitch, the lever had to be in the CLOSED position. More often than not, I got a satisfying "clink" as the lever pushed out and slammed back to the closed position.
After I locked it out for my Super Duty with 6' 9" bed so I could raise the pin box to the top position, hitching up became much easier since wedge removal required less precision. In retrospect, the Andersen Ultimate is a much better solution. You only need to install a goose neck ball for it to clamp to and it only weighs about 32 lbs. You can adjust both the hitch and the hitch pin adapter to move the front of the fiver forward or backward as needed, depending on your clearance.