Surge Protector or not?????

[jpharley]

I think that if you have a portable generator, you can bypass the electrical management part of the Progressive Industries EMS system. At least that is how our built in EMS works. It still works as a surge protector even when you bypass it. Portable generators are not grounded and the EMS does not like that,

[Scottybdivin]

Originally Posted by focker

Along the same question as presely01, would a Progressive or Surge Guard work fine if you used a traditional home plug (15 or 20 amp) with an adapter? I have a 50amp service on my RV but many times when it is parked at the house we will plug into the wall socket in garage so we can run the lights and the fridge before a trip.

I have used mine with 20/30/50A and it works fine with all. I have it plugged into 30A at home until I complete my pole barn, where I will have 50A service. I have mine installed after the ATS so it works on genny power as well. There are instructions in the manual for installing it before or after the ATS.

When you use an adapter and plug into 30A or 20A power, you are only getting one leg of service and it's being split into two legs into the coach. The EMS 50 shows how many amps each split is using, but it's all coming from the same leg.

[KOTR36]

Why do you need this and not need it in your home? I have surge protector plug in strips for my tv and computer and at home and in my rv, why do I need this?

[jtstromsburg]

Originally Posted by KOTR36

Why do you need this and not need it in your home? I have surge protector plug in strips for my tv and computer and at home and in my rv, why do I need this?

Your home is consistently on the same power source. Most RV's are used in different parks, thus different power sources. Some parks have weak electrical service, and may be prone to low voltage during demand times. A surge protecting power strip may help with a television or computer, but the overall appliances, AC, microwave, fridge, converter,etc, can burnout from low or high voltage.

[KOTR36]

Sorry, I don't buy it. If the RV park has voltage problems, then their neighbors do also and the local power company would be in trouble. And all those other appliances can be fed with surge protector strips also. Although I don't think they need it. I am checking with a friend in the power business and he will get back to me soon.

[Scottybdivin]

The EMS HW50 does a lot more than just surge protection. Besides high or low voltage, it also checks for reverse polarity, open neutral, open ground, AC frequency, and accidental 240V connection. After installing mine last spring, the very 1st pedestal I plugged into at an RV park only had one leg of power and it alarmed me and would not pass the power through to the coach. Now, I always check the monitor immediately after connecting to a power source and before I set everything up.

[gemini5362]

Originally Posted by KOTR36

Sorry, I don't buy it. If the RV park has voltage problems, then their neighbors do also and the local power company would be in trouble. And all those other appliances can be fed with surge protector strips also. Although I don't think they need it. I am checking with a friend in the power business and he will get back to me soon.

It is a wise idea to invest in an electrical management system. A park can have problems with wiring every pedestal has a wire running to it. Depending on how long the wire is and the gauge size can influence voltage. How many pedestals are daisy chained together. Bad connections. Missing neutrals. You would not think improper wiring of the pedestal would be a problem but I stopped in a park one time and they had just added some new spaces and the pedestals were wired wrong. Luckily for me the EMS would not let power into my coach.

If you invest in a large enough EMS for your coach it will protect all of your appliances that are hooked into it.

Also ask your friend about whole house surge protectors. I installed one in my fuse box of my stick house. Now our electric company installs meters with whole house surge protectors built in.

[Shadowcatche]

"Sorry, I don't buy it. If the RV park has voltage problems, then their neighbors do also and the local power company would be in trouble. And all those other appliances can be fed with surge protector strips also. Although I don't think they need it. I am checking with a friend in the power business and he will get back to me soon." If you look at contemporary recommendations voltage protections in bricks and sticks recommend layers with more than one source of protection. We have a surge protector for the whole house and then protection at various plugs/circuits in the house for the electronics. The refrigerator has its own suppressor as does the TV/stereo which also has suppression for antenna and phone line in to the sat receiver. I have an uninterpretable power supply for the main computer which is plugged into a suppressor which includes the phone line (DHL). a couple of years ago we had a major surge which affected many of our neighbors, I had alarms going of on the UPS so it made it past two layer of protection. With an RV park they are obviously subject to mains problems but they are also subject to incompetence in wiring and aging with power pedestals and system. Testing The Rv Park Power box, Without Being An Electrician "I have encountered several RV park power supplies that were wired wrong and could have caused a shock or burned up my systems." "I have seen many RVrs that just plug in and do not flip the breaker off first. Doing that with an old box that has highly oxidized connectors can cause power spikes, that alone, can damage your equipment onboard." "During the summer with all the A/C units in a park operating at full blast, it is not uncommon for the power to fluctuate to dangerously low levels, or to "brown out." Low voltage conditions can and will burn out your electronic control boards for your appliances, and HVAC units, especially the A/C unit." You have only to search and you will find example after example of problems that RV'ers have encountered. It will be likely that 99% of most parks will be ok but the 1% can do a lot of damage and there can be storms with lightening that will affect more than just the park.

[IMDSailor]

Originally Posted by Shadowcatche

"Sorry, I don't buy it. If the RV park has voltage problems, then their neighbors do also and the local power company would be in trouble. And all those other appliances can be fed with surge protector strips also. Although I don't think they need it. I am checking with a friend in the power business and he will get back to me soon." If you look at contemporary recommendations voltage protections in bricks and sticks recommend layers with more than one source of protection. We have a surge protector for the whole house and then protection at various plugs/circuits in the house for the electronics. The refrigerator has its own suppressor as does the TV/stereo which also has suppression for antenna and phone line in to the sat receiver. I have an uninterpretable power supply for the main computer which is plugged into a suppressor which includes the phone line (DHL). a couple of years ago we had a major surge which affected many of our neighbors, I had alarms going of on the UPS so it made it past two layer of protection. With an RV park they are obviously subject to mains problems but they are also subject to incompetence in wiring and aging with power pedestals and system. Testing The Rv Park Power box, Without Being An Electrician "I have encountered several RV park power supplies that were wired wrong and could have caused a shock or burned up my systems." "I have seen many RVrs that just plug in and do not flip the breaker off first. Doing that with an old box that has highly oxidized connectors can cause power spikes, that alone, can damage your equipment onboard." "During the summer with all the A/C units in a park operating at full blast, it is not uncommon for the power to fluctuate to dangerously low levels, or to "brown out." Low voltage conditions can and will burn out your electronic control boards for your appliances, and HVAC units, especially the A/C unit." You have only to search and you will find example after example of problems that RV'ers have encountered. It will be likely that 99% of most parks will be ok but the 1% can do a lot of damage and there can be storms with lightening that will affect more than just the park.

Excellent reply. I have also made a pedestal tester, from directions I found in this site. I can now check the pedestal before I plug my rig in.
At the end of the day a Surge protector is cheap insurance against the 1% mentioned in the above post.
The cost of one is is only a small percentage of what it would cost to replace all the kit it's protecting.
To not have one is fool hardy IMHO.

[caissiel]

Originally Posted by IMDSailor

Excellent reply. I have also made a pedestal tester, from directions I found in this site. I can now check the pedestal before I plug my rig in.
At the end of the day a Surge protector is cheap insurance against the 1% mentioned in the above post.
The cost of one is is only a small percentage of what it would cost to replace all the kit it's protecting.
To not have one is fool hardy IMHO.

I had a 50 amp post unit. On a 30 post I used my 30 amp cord for one week without a surge protector and blew the powered supply on my desktop which had it's own surge cord.

We volonteer a lot and sometime only have 30amp available. So went and bought a 30 amp unit for the 30 amp cord.

Makes connections so easy to check at the post. Then switch power on unit at the panel.

[IMDSailor]

Originally Posted by caissiel

I had a 50 amp post unit. On a 30 post I used my 30 amp cord for one week without a surge protector and blew the powered supply on my desktop which had it's own surge cord.

We volonteer a lot and sometime only have 30amp available. So went and bought a 30 amp unit for the 30 amp cord.

Makes connections so easy to check at the post. Then switch power on unit at the panel.

I'm assuming you have a 50 Amp rig based on you indicating that you had a 50 Amp surge protector. You can use a 50 Amp protector on a 30 Amp post, it will protect you. You just need the plug adapters.
For instance, my rig is 50 Amps. My surge Guard in wired in, not a portable one, regardless it still protects me when I'm at a 30 Amp site. There in no need to have a second 30 Amp Surge protector, if thats what I'm understanding from your post.

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by presley01

Will the EMS-HW50C work if used with a 30A to 50A adapter. Sometimes we are at a campsite that only offers 30A service and use an adapter to plug in our 50A camper. Our portable generator is 30A also and we use the adapter on that.

Yes, it will work while using any of the approved Dog-Bones going from 50 to 30 amp or 30 to 20 amp.

It will also work with any built-in generator. However, Progressive Industries does not approve using it with a 12 VDC to 120 VAC inverter.

Originally Posted by jpharley

I think that if you have a portable generator, you can bypass the electrical management part of the Progressive Industries EMS system. At least that is how our built in EMS works. It still works as a surge protector even when you bypass it. Portable generators are not grounded and the EMS does not like that,

Yes, when using a portable generator versus an on-board generator there is a big difference with the grounding. In that case you would need to use the BY-Pass switch to disable the EMS.

Originally Posted by KOTR36

Why do you need this and not need it in your home? I have surge protector plug in strips for my tv and computer and at home and in my rv, why do I need this?

There are home versions of these EMS units but they are VERY expensive. Besides, once your home has been wired, inspected for ground, neutral and has been approved to code the only worry is whether your power company can supply GOOD power to you 24/7, the most common problems are brown-outs and surges.

When traveling with a RV you are exposed to many different power situations that you have NO control over especially when it may not have anything to do with the local power company but is caused by improper wiring inside the RV Park or campground.

Surge protector strips are not the same type of units as the PI EMS HW-50C units. These units are far more superior than any surge protector that you could buy.

It's your choice and your RV. No one is going to twist your arm and make you buy this unit HOWEVER if you were to experience a burn-out with a missing or dropped neutral the $300 for this unit will be a pittance compared to what you will spend to replace A/Cs, TV's, microwave, various electronics, etc.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by EZDZIT

Yes, it will work with 30 amp campground service using your adapter. I'm not sure it will work with a generator however. I'm sure Progressive Industries would love to talk to you.

Except for the floating ground issue with many generators (they don't connect the white neutral to the green ground), the PI works fine. There is information on the site below on the generator wiring necessary to avoid tripping the PI with generators.

Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

[WDK450]

I think the biggest 2 power problems at RV sites are NOT related to power company problems. One of the problems RVers cause themselves, an the other is a result of poor wiring/lack of maintenance on the pedestals. I retired from a career as a hospital medical equipment electronics technician.
The RVer created problem is bad outlets/plugs, mainly 30 amp. This is due to RVers plugging into the pedestal outlets with the pedestal circuit breakers ON. This causes arcing and corrosion on the outlet and plug contact surfaces. This corrosion is accelerated by heat, and a bad connection carrying large currents creates this heat. I have a fairly new 50-30 amp dogbone adapter that had one of its blades discolored and corroded by being in such a connection for a few days. The breaker is MEANT to also act as a switch, and should be tested for loaded heating on a regular schedule. I now use electrical contact spray on all electrical power connections (including the park outlet) to my rig BEFORE turning on the breakers.
The 2nd problem is the well known bad neutral connection at the pedestal on 50 amp connections. A fault with this wire/connection on the pedestal WILL cause 220 volts to be applied to your 110 volt circuits. You neighbor at the RV park will be unaffected.
It took me 4 years (of good luck) to finally spend the $350 for an Progressive 50 amp wired EMS, and I am so glad I did it. The worry of unknown electrical power problems now gone. As a side benefit, when I am connected to 30 amp power (as I am most times in Thousand Trails preserves), I can know (with the in-RV readout) how many amps my trailer is pulling, and manage my current draw to avoid tripping the pedestal 30 amp breaker.