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Old 07-05-2016, 07:35 AM   #15
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It’s hard to say what a dealer will do to get a sale. If they have a solid contractual agreement with the trailer manufacturer I doubt they would risk it. Before the papers are signed their hands are pretty much tied to the manufacturers responsibilities. The trailer manufacturer is the one that would have to OK the certification label change.

Some manufacturer’s have models where optional tires are offered.

One must understand the responsibilities of vehicle certification. There are severe monitory penalties that can be imposed on the vehicle manufacturer for safety violations, especially if they trigger a vehicle recall.
Are you sure that a dealer needs "approval" to modify the unit before sale? I thought that if a dealer made a number of modifications such as adding awnings or maybe changing some interior appointments etc all that was required of the dealer was to place a new Cert Label showing the updated capacity weight numbers if they were different.

Assume for the moment someone wanted a desk instead of a couch. The dealer installed a desk and removed the couch and seat belts. The dealer would need to change information on the number of "sleeping" or seating positions and to make changes in load capacity numbers that include a calculation for the number of people "approved" for travel in the RV. Correct or not?

In the case of tires isn't it true that it is acceptable to change tire size, type, Load Range as long as the new tires have a rated load capacity equal to or greaterr than the OE tires? After making such a change, I thought that per 571.120 Sect 10.5 provide guidelines for what needs to be done after original certification (by RV assembly plant) and before first retail sale.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:49 AM   #16
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mobile scout tires

I suggest you learn how to use the SEARCH function of this forum. If you enter the word tire you will find dozens of pages listing hundreds of threads covering all sorts of tire questions.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:55 AM   #17
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A question I have wondered, will dealers allow you to upgrade before buying so that you only have to pay the difference instead of " throwing away" the cheap OEM tires? ( or will the tire dealer give you anything for the OEM tires.) Planning on buying a fifth wheel in the future and knew I would replace the cheap China tires soon

IMO I would think of the question as you do when you buy a car. The dealer has a price. You are offering a trade in plus cash. You are not forced to buy the car until you have reached agreement on the bottom line cost to you. Why would you think buying an RV any different.
Dealer should give you a reasonable % of retail for the tires as in all probability they will end up selling the new take-off tires to a customer than needs new tires to replace old or failed old tires.

Remember you can always walk away from the deal if you don't get what you want.
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:02 AM   #18
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Any problems with the GY Marathon tires?

Here are over 3,000 posts on Goodyear Marathon tires.
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Old 07-05-2016, 07:42 PM   #19
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just a question, what are the difference between a duravis r250 and marathon goodyear tire? duravis is a 16inch tire and i believe the goodyear are 15,s
A huge difference in the reliability area when used in a trailer position.
See my reply in post #6 on the R250. Bridgestone recommends them for trailer service as long as their fitted to the axle capacity. These tires work great on RV trailers/commercial haulers trailers/etc. Many commercial haulers report over 50k miles on their trailers before the tread wear bars start showing.

The Goodyear Marathons come in 15" and 16" sizes and are another cheap low cost ST trailer tire.
Looking around the different trailer forums shows the Marathons don't have a good track record in the reliability area.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:18 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=Tireman9;3146213]
Are you sure that a dealer needs "approval" to modify the unit before sale? I thought that if a dealer made a number of modifications such as adding awnings or maybe changing some interior appointments etc all that was required of the dealer was to place a new Cert Label showing the updated capacity weight numbers if they were different.

This is partly true because it’s covered in the FMVSS. However what you are referring to is cargo weights which do not require a certification label change, just a modification of the cargo labeling.

Assume for the moment someone wanted a desk instead of a couch. The dealer installed a desk and removed the couch and seat belts. The dealer would need to change information on the number of "sleeping" or seating positions and to make changes in load capacity numbers that include a calculation for the number of people "approved" for travel in the RV. Correct or not?

Before a unit is sold the unit manufacturer is solely responsible for the correctness of its certification label. Removing or installing seat belt positions alters the units design function, cargo load and weight and balance for the finished unit.

In the case of tires isn't it true that it is acceptable to change tire size, type, Load Range as long as the new tires have a rated load capacity equal to or greaterr than the OE tires?

Your statement above is part of the tire industry standards for replacement tires, not to be confused with original equipment tire selections. The basic statement for OE tire selection by the vehicle manufacturer is from FMVSS and requires the vehicle manufacturer to select tire/wheel assemblies that are appropriate for the fitment. (Appropriate meaning equal to or greater than the minimum standards found in the FMVSS). It further states that the vehicle manufacturer must determine and set the recommended inflation (correct) pressures for the selected tires.

The FMVSS also says the tires on the vehicle at the time of first sale MUST be of the same size as what is described on the certification label. That sort of ties the retailer/dealer’s hands. They can change name brand but the size and load capacity must match the certification label. So the basic question is; Will the vehicle manufacturer authorize a certification label change for a different sized tire? Yes, but only those on an options list or another size approved by them. It’s been my observation that the vehicle manufacturer has made their initial (appropriate) selection and maybe offered options and the are sticking to their original decisions in that matter.


After making such a change, I thought that per 571.120 Sect 10.5 provide guidelines for what needs to be done after original certification (by RV assembly plant) and before first retail sale.

Yes, but, here again, they are addressing cargo and its labeling. Changing cargo does not change any GAWR or the GVWR values.
QUOTE]

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Old 07-06-2016, 10:39 AM   #21
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LT tires are not available in size LT235/80R16E or lower load ranges. So to stick with 16” rims most will have to go with LRG 16” LT tires. You will find “do-it-yourselfers” that will recommend and/or use replacement tires with less load capacity than the OE tires provide but you will have to search high and low (mostly low) to find a reputable tire dealer to do it. It’s against tire industry standards.
I slightly disagree with your statement that 'most' have to go to load range G when switching to LTs. There are many fivers running either 5200 lb axles or 6k lb axles that it is perfectly acceptable to use a tire with 3042 lb capacity. I agree if the axles are 7k, then the higher load range is needed with LTs.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:32 PM   #22
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I slightly disagree with your statement that 'most' have to go to load range G when switching to LTs. There are many fivers running either 5200 lb axles or 6k lb axles that it is perfectly acceptable to use a tire with 3042 lb capacity. I agree if the axles are 7k, then the higher load range is needed with LTs.


An explanation is complicated and twofold. First we have the regulations vehicle manufacturer’s MUST follow when building RV trailers. Secondly we have tire industry standards to follow when using replacement tires.

The most basic rule for the trailer manufacturer to follow is to select original equipment tires that satisfy the basic requirement. That requirement is they must have the capability to support the trailer’s certified GAWR (s), and, in unison with the regulations, be appropriate for each fitment. Trailer manufacturers are not locked into a specific design to select from. They may select any highway tire that has a DOT certification. Passenger (P), Light Truck (LT), Special Trailer (ST), or any of medium duty truck tires for the largest of axles. It is their selection and they are the only ones that can do it because they MUST certify their selection. Because of the finality of their selections the end result is a sort of benchmark for all subsequent tire selections for your trailers.

Tire industry standards fully support the vehicle manufacturer’s Original Equipment tire/rim selections and fitments. A statement very similar to this one is found in all major tire manufacturers SOP maintenance manuals; Replacement tires must have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires. Of course that’s by inflation. Similar statements will be found in your trailer’s owner’s manual.

It becomes sticky when an owner wants to change tire designs with replacements from another design. Especially when going from the ST design to the LT design. Many of the LT tire manufacturers will void warranty coverage for using their LT tires in place of ST tires.

Then there is what I call a hybrid LT tire. That’s a tire with a LT prefix that says, for trailer service only, on its sidewall. It’s in a class all its own. They are normally used on 7000# axles of offered as options for 6750# GAWR axles.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:25 PM   #23
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A question I have wondered, will dealers allow you to upgrade before buying so that you only have to pay the difference instead of " throwing away" the cheap OEM tires? ( or will the tire dealer give you anything for the OEM tires.) Planning on buying a fifth wheel in the future and knew I would replace the cheap China tires soon
When I got my High Country new this year I replaced mine with Mich. Ribs and the dealer gave me $50 a tire for the ones that were on there. I was happy with that.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:22 PM   #24
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They may select any highway tire that has a DOT certification. Passenger (P), Light Truck (LT), Special Trailer (ST), or any of medium duty truck tires for the largest of axles. Because of the finality of their selections the end result is a sort of benchmark for all subsequent tire selections for your trailers.

Tire industry standards fully support the vehicle manufacturer’s Original Equipment tire/rim selections and fitments. A statement very similar to this one is found in all major tire manufacturers SOP maintenance manuals; Replacement tires must have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires. Of course that’s by inflation. Similar statements will be found in your trailer’s owner’s manual.[/SIZE]

It becomes sticky when an owner wants to change tire designs with replacements from another design. Especially when going from the ST design to the LT design. Many of the LT tire manufacturers will void warranty coverage for using their LT tires in place of ST tires.
I understand your points. But many trailer stickers do not specify ST, LT, P or whatever. Like mine which only specifies tire size and PSI. The only load rating specified is GAWR. From a tire perspective only I understand the warranty issue of a lower capacity tire. But it would be almost impossible to overload either a 3420 lb tire (ST) or a 3042 lb tire (LT) on a 5200 lb axle w/o overloading the axle first.
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Old 07-07-2016, 06:45 AM   #25
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I understand your points. But many trailer stickers do not specify ST, LT, P or whatever. Like mine which only specifies tire size and PSI. The only load rating specified is GAWR. From a tire perspective only I understand the warranty issue of a lower capacity tire. But it would be almost impossible to overload either a 3420 lb tire (ST) or a 3042 lb tire (LT) on a 5200 lb axle w/o overloading the axle first.

FastEagle
Dayle makes a good point. If you insist that there can be absolutely no changes to the RV regarding tires and since tires w/o the letter prefix "P", "LT" or "ST" are either a commercial truck size or a "Eurometric" size the RV would be subject to a recall if "P", "LT" or "ST" were on the RV.

I still would suggest that if you want to buy a new RV and want different tires on it you can still negotiate with the RV dealer to make a change before you drive off the lot.

To make FastEagle happy you reach an agreement with the dealer. Place something in writing about tire change after sale to be done by y date for x dollars. Sign the bill of sale and then the dealer changes tires and you drive off the lot.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:39 AM   #26
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I understand your points. But many trailer stickers do not specify ST, LT, P or whatever. Like mine which only specifies tire size and PSI. The only load rating specified is GAWR. From a tire perspective only I understand the warranty issue of a lower capacity tire. But it would be almost impossible to overload either a 3420 lb tire (ST) or a 3042 lb tire (LT) on a 5200 lb axle w/o overloading the axle first.
Tire size prefixes on tire placards/certification labels before 2007 were often omitted. Because of the inflation pressures it was still pretty easy to determine what the design of the OE tires was. After the major rules change in 2007 tire size prefixes became a normal occurrence.

The load capacity of the OE tire determines the load capacity of the replacement tire.

5200# GAWR axles seldom get OE tires with more than 2830# of load capacity @ 80 PSI. Those are normally 15" tires. Trailer manufacturers are notorious for spacing RV trailer axles according to the dimensions of the OE tires. When they do that, 16" tires are normally to tall for a safe fitment.

6000# GAWR axles are almost exclusively fitted with ST235/80R16E tires. 3420# of load capacity @ 80 PSI is the default figure unless specifically identified otherwise by the vehicle manufacturer. The next tire size acceptable for replacements is the ST235/85R16G (for trailer service only)tires.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:08 AM   #27
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To make FastEagle happy you reach an agreement with the dealer. Place something in writing about tire change after sale to be done by y date for x dollars. Sign the bill of sale and then the dealer changes tires and you drive off the lot.
Here is the problem I see with such actions. The dealer would be violating a dealer/manufacturer trust.

The owner would have tire placard and certification label with misinformation if the tire size/design changed. Will the dealer install an auxiliary tire placard (authorized by NHTSA and recommended in tire industry standards)?

How much of the trailer's warranty will be voided with such an unauthorized change in its original design/equipment?

The vehicle manufacturer is required to keep a record - by serial number - of the OE tires for 5 years. Will the dealer register the tires they put on the vehicle and hope the manufacture overlooks the replacements?

Isn't an unauthorized tire replacement also a misapplication? No tire manufacturer will warranty a misapplication of their tires.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:01 PM   #28
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Tire size prefixes on tire placards/certification labels before 2007 were often omitted. After the major rules change in 2007 tire size prefixes became a normal occurrence.
Mine is a 2011 and there is no prefix, maybe I have an odd unit or maybe it is not so common for prefixes to be included.

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5200# GAWR axles seldom get OE tires with more than 2830# of load capacity @ 80 PSI. Those are normally 15" tires. Trailer manufacturers are notorious for spacing RV trailer axles according to the dimensions of the OE tires. When they do that, 16" tires are normally to tall for a safe fitment.
My axles are 5200# and came with 16" tires from the factory, 3420# load capacity or 1640# more than the axle rating. My replacement LTs are very close in size w/o clearance issues.

6000# GAWR axles are almost exclusively fitted with ST235/80R16E tires. 3420# of load capacity @ 80 PSI is the default figure unless specifically identified otherwise by the vehicle manufacturer. The next tire size acceptable for replacements is the ST235/85R16G (for trailer service only)tires.[/QUOTE]

Even if I had 6000# axles I would rather use LTs with a 3042# load capacity that any brand ST load range E tire.
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