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Old 07-17-2015, 08:18 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by NavyDiver198 View Post
Hi Tireman9 Thanks very much for the additional info. I check the tires before any trip (pressure and torque). I wasn't implying that I was going to run out and buy new tires now, only that perhaps next year before we start the season off, this would be the first thing I would do. I looked at the Carlisle and Maxxis tires, both look pretty good, and they come in LR E, which gives, I think a bit more breathing room than the current LR D.
Glad you check your tires before each trip. BUT you are still leaving yourself exposed to tire failure due to impact, cuts or punctures. Checking the air before the trip is like checking the engine dip stick oil level. Why do you bother to have all those instruments on the dash when you can check oil and water before the trip and simply take your chances while on the road?

I would challenge you to tape over all your gauges and see how comfortable you are as you travel down the highway.

A TPMS is much like another gauge that monitors the operation of your vehicle. Only needs to give you a warning of air loss one time to pay for itself.
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Old 07-17-2015, 10:21 PM   #100
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Tireman,
Why do some tires have significantly more complaints about blow-outs than others?

Do you think that the owners of that particular brand of tires are worse about maintaining proper pressures and/or tend to run over more debris?


No one is going to argue that maintaining proper pressure is not a good idea, nor is anyone going to argue that having a TPMS system is not a good idea. I think the general objection is that you seem to be indicating pressure and/or debris or the cause of problems with many of these tires made in China.

To be honest, if that's what you're proposing, I simply don't agree. And I'll state flatly, that manufacturers that are buying a tire that is at 93% of rated capacity out of (assuming perfect tire/axle balance) - that's not the right choice by the manufacturer... At least in my opinion. And dealers will sell anything. My sales guy looked at the rating on my axles and told me "it's a misprint" - simply because he didn't know to subtract the pin weight. Most consumers don't check post sale... And when a tire COMPLETELY destroys itself, root cause is hard to find.


Note, I've had a Goodyear LT truck tire go. Belt separated. Properly inflated (I had just checked), no TPMS. However, I'd rather go with a Goodyear than a factory tire that's at borderline capacity and a "new" brand name made at the same factory as a plant where there are lots of complaints about other brand names.
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:30 PM   #101
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Tireman,
Why do some tires have significantly more complaints about blow-outs than others?

Do you think that the owners of that particular brand of tires are worse about maintaining proper pressures and/or tend to run over more debris?

No one is going to argue that maintaining proper pressure is not a good idea, nor is anyone going to argue that having a TPMS system is not a good idea. I think the general objection is that you seem to be indicating pressure and/or debris or the cause of problems with many of these tires made in China.

To be honest, if that's what you're proposing, I simply don't agree. And I'll state flatly, that manufacturers that are buying a tire that is at 93% of rated capacity out of (assuming perfect tire/axle balance) - that's not the right choice by the manufacturer... At least in my opinion. And dealers will sell anything. My sales guy looked at the rating on my axles and told me "it's a misprint" - simply because he didn't know to subtract the pin weight. Most consumers don't check post sale... And when a tire COMPLETELY destroys itself, root cause is hard to find.


Note, I've had a Goodyear LT truck tire go. Belt separated. Properly inflated (I had just checked), no TPMS. However, I'd rather go with a Goodyear than a factory tire that's at borderline capacity and a "new" brand name made at the same factory as a plant where there are lots of complaints about other brand names.

Too often people confuse correlation with causation.

With tens of thousands of measurements in their database it is well established that a majority of RVs have one or more tires in an overload / under inflated condition. So with over half of people having tires operating beyond their design limits why are people so surprised that a good portion of RV owners have tire problems.

RE China made products. While they may have a problem with having a quality mindset that allows and encourages the worker to follow good quality practices problems with making a quality product are not as much a function of ZIP code of the factory as the failure of RV companies to demand better quality from both their own workers and of the products provided by their suppliers.
If you were to check out the Airstream forum you would see they have a lot of quality complaints. Since most Airstreams are made in Jackson, Ohio and since there a lot of product complaints on the Airstream forum does that prove that any RV made in Ohio is a bad product?
There are some tires made in China where the company has made the effort to produce good quality products. These companies are the ones that offer multi year warranty on their products.

Just how many people, when shopping for tires, ask about the length and items covered under the product warranty rather than "What is the lowest price"?

RE my claim " indicating pressure and/or debris or the cause of problems "
is just based on what I see in the thousands of tires I have inspected and the numerous tires I see pictures of on this and other forums.

Sidewall flex failures with evidence of sidewall temperature exceeding 350F is the proof of a run low flex failure as I have never seen a tire with this evidence that failed for some reason other then extreme low inflation and operation at highway speed.
Here are a few examples




Here is melted Polyester


Here is a tire with melted polyester, Interior abrasion from a few miles at less than 5 psi


Here is the interior of a tire that had 5 psi in it after 3 miles at 10 mph.

That nice circumferential line of cracks is the location on the sidewall that would have melted if the tire had been running highway speeds.

See, I am a Tire Engineer and have done the examinations and the testing to establish conditions that if duplicated will 100% of the time result in a "Run Low Flex Failure" and the tire will have a number of pieces of evidence used to confirm the cause. This evidence does not occur only in tires made in China or made in Mexico or even made in Akron Ohio. This evidence will exist in any tire made with Polyester or Nylon body ply cord.

Note Steel body tires can also fail in similar fashion but with them we see steel fatigue like this electron microscope picture.


If essentially all OE tires on TT are made in China why would you expect the complaints to be about tires made in another country like say Germany?

Since almost all non tire related com[plaints about RVs are from RVs made in America I guess by your logic then America makes bad RVs.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:18 PM   #102
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Tireman9,
You're right - the decision to use cheap tires that are at limits is a reaction to trying to gain market share via price competition. There are consumers (like myself) that would like to have "better" options available without having to step up by a huge price factory by buying a wonderfully engineered 5th wheel with a big price point like DRV.

In regard to Airstream: You're right. American made. My counter point would be that they're now owned by Thor. Part of the Thor reputation seems to be being incurred on Airstream.

I have a side business of manufactured goods out of China. I don't want bottom line prices - I typically want better quality and will pay, usually, 50% more for it. It's hard to find that, because it's hard to see and price is most obvious.

In regard to posts here, you seem to indicate that it's not manufacturers fault that they put tires out of China on units, but you haven't indicated that there is any sort of relationship between tires that are being made out of China and a high failure rate. You do indicate that we should do the best we can with any tire via proper inflation, loading, and installing a TPMS, but again, I think the beef is that MANY of those tires are at a higher (perhaps significantly) than a tire that you and I could buy from Goodyear in a proper load and speed range. You don't seem to acknowledge that.

You may be right, we may all be wasting money by replacing perfectly good China-based tires that are loaded to max... But with the kind of damage that an exploded tire does to a trailer, lack of accountability from the tire importer, and the fact that you simply can't prove what happened prior to tire explosion... Replacing those tires is a bet that I'm willing to make.

There are complaints about US tires. And we're basically arguing about points of view because we don't have complete statistics on how many of a given brand / model of tire are on the road. We can look at complaints, but if there are 20k tires on the road and we see only 30 complaints, that's probably a pretty good tire.

I do think that most RVs - at least the RVs that you buy in the <100k range in the USA are of what I'd call "marginal quality" - they largely have the same construction techniques and often illustrate the same lack of attention to detail: wires everywhere, no engineered wiring diagrams, plumbing is hap-hazzard, door / trim alignment products, construction debris, poorly installed screws... This is what the market produces at price point and the generally work well for a while or can last for quite a while if properly maintained (kinda like tires).

RV quality - if you ask for it at the dealer: It largely seems to translate to "trim" - They'll sell you an RV with real wood cabinets, fancier electronics, etc.. Rarely does it get into a better roof system, better suspension, better framing techniques.. Well, not until you're really look at units that were designed for customers seeking those things.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:58 PM   #103
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Glad you check your tires before each trip. BUT you are still leaving yourself exposed to tire failure due to impact, cuts or punctures. Checking the air before the trip is like checking the engine dip stick oil level. Why do you bother to have all those instruments on the dash when you can check oil and water before the trip and simply take your chances while on the road?

I would challenge you to tape over all your gauges and see how comfortable you are as you travel down the highway.

A TPMS is much like another gauge that monitors the operation of your vehicle. Only needs to give you a warning of air loss one time to pay for itself.
I am going to buy a TPMS as soon as I can afford it. 300 plus exchange is just not feasible at this time.
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:25 PM   #104
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You might want to look at the birdgestone r 250 awesome tire.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:07 PM   #105
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I'm running Sailun st235/85-16 G rated at 4080 @ 110 psi. 75mph. Have been using these since April this year. On one all day running 12 hours the tire pre sure only increased 8 psi per tire and temps were just a little above ambient temps. For 700$ all four tires I think Sailun may have something going for them.
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Old 07-31-2015, 05:41 AM   #106
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Just put a set of Goodyear Wrangler HT LT245/75R16" on my 5er.

Wow!! the side-by-side comparison alone to the wimpy 15" tires is stunning.
Kinda makes me feel foolish for ever even pulling my camper out of the driveway with those "toy tires" on there.

Obviously there are any number of tire brands that would be a vast improvement over the ST tires that come with these campers.
Thanks for all the good advice given here.

Confidence level will be high when we pull out in a few weeks for our next trip.
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:18 AM   #107
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I'm running Sailun st235/85-16 G rated at 4080 @ 110 psi. 75mph. Have been using these since April this year. On one all day running 12 hours the tire pre sure only increased 8 psi per tire and temps were just a little above ambient temps. For 700$ all four tires I think Sailun may have something going for them.

I'm curious which wheels you have and are they 6 lug?
Thanks!


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Old 07-31-2015, 08:26 AM   #108
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They are 8 lug wheels rated for these tires. 8k axles
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:42 AM   #109
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They are 8 lug wheels rated for these tires. 8k axles

Thanks... I have a triple axle and have been struggling to find 6 lug wheels that were rated and stamped for 110 PSI.
My current wheels are very heavy steel wheels and they are rated to carry 3760# but there are no pressure stamps on them.
Subsequently, I am running them only to 90PSI even though two independent tire dealers state that they have no problems putting 110 PSI in steel wheels like mine.



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Old 04-17-2017, 09:09 PM   #110
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I would stick to the "ST" tires they are superior to any LT. The ST stands for Special Tire and have been designed specifically for RV Trailers. It's about the strength of the sidewall. Also always go up a load class Use G as an example rather than say E because they are more readily available.
Your take the load range of your four tires and it should equal the weight of your trailer.
This is exactly what I've been told by real tire experts. It's all about the sidewalks...no LTs for me!!!
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:52 PM   #111
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boy this long long dead thread was "rizzed from the dead"
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:42 AM   #112
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I think I'll stick with my made in America Goodyear tires
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