Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-23-2015, 01:04 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
caissiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,312
In my experience I would trust an overloaded LT tire before any ST tires. Just the thread dept make LT tires safe to use. The ST tires have no thread dept for easier rolling with less road friction. But with a great sacrifice of road hazard protection.
My ST tires always blew on the rear axle because the front axle tire lifts the object an the rear tire gets cut.

I rotate my tires once per year and notice the thread cuts on my LT tires even some needed puncture repairs that never leaked before or after.
There is not enough rubber on ST tire period. Plus the same size LT tires have lower rating then STs due to the cargo containment of human life.
To regain the capacity I have operated LT at higher pressure with great success.
Found that out by accident when I was young and had my car serviced and after the tires were worn out found out that my tires were kept at 42 psi while the side wall max pressure was 35psi.
Bought Michelin's and was glade to see them go. At 32 lbs they road rougher then the cheap Firestone at 42 lbs.
But my son loved them on his car as they lasted forever. Personally I would install Sailun tires at 110 lbs because they are all position tires with plenty of rubber and well priced.
Maybe any LT rating E could be loaded and aired at 90 psi and do as well. I sure will if ever in a situation that load rage G tires are unavailable. I already checked tire shops around home and no one heard of Sailun tires and they are imported through Canada from China. Of course I live in eastern Canada.
__________________

__________________
Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
caissiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-23-2015, 09:04 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
You know as well as I do that's a "canned" answer. You forget I live 10 miles from Michelin of North America and they (Michelin of North America) do not recommend any of their XPS Rib line-up as trailer tires. They are a summer tire designed for commercial service.

That in no way represents an endorsement for any other brand or design. It's just a fact about the XPS Rib- name brand - from Michelin.
Yes Calvin and I remember your insistent campaign to some how discredit Michelin because they wouldn't answer your loaded statements about the XPS Ribs disguised as questions.

Here is another fact (canned answer ) in the form of a email from Michelin that recommends the XPS Ribs for our RV trailers; this one was posted on RV.net .

Michelin response;

Posted: 12/14/12 12:14am Link | Quote | Print | Notify Moderator
I sent an email to Michelin for a response regarding using Michelin XPS ribs on my 5th wheel. Here is the question and their response:

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Due to recent high email volume and some technical issues that we have experienced, please accept our apology for the delay in this response. Your interest in Michelin is certainly appreciated.


In regards to the email you sent stating:
I have a 2006 Montana 5th wheel Trailer that has two 6,000 lb Dexter axles and 4 deluxe aluminum Rims each rated at 3,042 lbs. I would like to install your Michelin XPS® Rib™ LT235/85 R16/E's on this 5th wheel. Will the tires be fully waranteed in this application?

Answer..---------------------------------------------------------------------
We appreciate your request for information regarding the Michelin XPS Rib. The XPS Rib, size LT235/85R16/E, part number 13080 would be a good fitment for your 5th wheel. The tire carries 3042Lbs at 80-psi max pressure. For best pressure recommendation, run at maximum pressure until you can weigh your axles either call or reply to this email for a pressure recommendation.
It is a good application, so there are no warranty issues. Your tires are covered under applicable warranty.
We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Diana
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

PS: It's important that you get all the safety-related materials that come with the purchase of new Michelin passenger and light truck tires. If you did not receive a warranty book, you can download one at www.michelin.com/warranty/. If you did not register your tires, please take a moment to do so at Groupe Michelin : actualité du leader des pneumatiques & de la mobilité | Michelin. Registering your tires is easy and takes just a minute.
__________________

__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 11:54 AM   #59
Senior Member
 
FastEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
Yes Calvin and I remember your insistent campaign to some how discredit Michelin because they wouldn't answer your loaded statements about the XPS Ribs disguised as questions.

Here is another fact (canned answer ) in the form of a email from Michelin that recommends the XPS Ribs for our RV trailers; this one was posted on RV.net .

Michelin response;

Posted: 12/14/12 12:14am Link | Quote | Print | Notify Moderator
I sent an email to Michelin for a response regarding using Michelin XPS ribs on my 5th wheel. Here is the question and their response:

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Due to recent high email volume and some technical issues that we have experienced, please accept our apology for the delay in this response. Your interest in Michelin is certainly appreciated.


In regards to the email you sent stating:
I have a 2006 Montana 5th wheel Trailer that has two 6,000 lb Dexter axles and 4 deluxe aluminum Rims each rated at 3,042 lbs. I would like to install your Michelin XPS® Rib™ LT235/85 R16/E's on this 5th wheel. Will the tires be fully waranteed in this application?

Answer..---------------------------------------------------------------------
We appreciate your request for information regarding the Michelin XPS Rib. The XPS Rib, size LT235/85R16/E, part number 13080 would be a good fitment for your 5th wheel. The tire carries 3042Lbs at 80-psi max pressure. For best pressure recommendation, run at maximum pressure until you can weigh your axles either call or reply to this email for a pressure recommendation.
It is a good application, so there are no warranty issues. Your tires are covered under applicable warranty.
We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Diana
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

PS: It's important that you get all the safety-related materials that come with the purchase of new Michelin passenger and light truck tires. If you did not receive a warranty book, you can download one at www.michelin.com/warranty/. If you did not register your tires, please take a moment to do so at Groupe Michelin : actualité du leader des pneumatiques & de la mobilité | Michelin. Registering your tires is easy and takes just a minute.
I also have letters that counter yours.



We do not recommend using passenger/light truck tires on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

We are sorry, but we do not make anything that would be comparable to an "ST" rated tire.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

If we can assist you further, please call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Sherry
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert
FastEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 12:25 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
drfife's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 2,123
Calvin, what tires do you use on your 5th wheel? Have you experienced any tire failures? How often do you replace your tires? What is the axle weight of your trailer? How many miles per year do you tow? What speed do you tow?
__________________
Russell
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE

'16 GMC Sierra 3500HD
drfife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 06:52 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
FastEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by drfife View Post
Calvin, what tires do you use on your 5th wheel? Have you experienced any tire failures? How often do you replace your tires? What is the axle weight of your trailer? How many miles per year do you tow? What speed do you tow?
My trailer's GAWRs are 6000# matching Dexter's axle tag.

My trailer's OE tires were Goodyear Marathons. All five failed. Replacements were from other ST manufacturers until I found the Power King TowMax tires. I've been using them since 2005 and my trailer now sets on it's third set. I replace them every three years unless they go into storage close to the three year mark. Then I replace them when we start traveling again.

FastEagle
FastEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 07:55 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
I also have letters that counter yours. (snipped)



We do not recommend using passenger/light truck tires on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

We are sorry, but we do not make anything that would be comparable to an "ST" rated tire.
Yes I remember how proud you were when you asked Michelin a loaded question if they would recommend a LT E at 3042 lbs to replace the OEM ST E at 3400-3500 lbs capacity. Liability issues keeps them from recommending a lower capacity 3042 lb tire to replace a higher rated 3500 lb tire regardless of tire brand or tire type.

However I would think by this time you would realize how really silly your push against Michelin and especially the XPS Ribs has been. Time to let it go man. It serves no purpose. IMO you need to be more interested in helping others make a better decision on a better tire for a trailer.
__________________
'03 Dodge 2500 Cummins HO 3.73 NV5600 Jacobs
'98 3500 DRW 454 4x4 4.10 crew cab
'97 Park Avanue RK 28' 2 slides
JIMNLIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 10:55 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
drfife's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 2,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEagle View Post
My trailer's GAWRs are 6000# matching Dexter's axle tag.

My trailer's OE tires were Goodyear Marathons. All five failed. Replacements were from other ST manufacturers until I found the Power King TowMax tires. I've been using them since 2005 and my trailer now sets on it's third set. I replace them every three years unless they go into storage close to the three year mark. Then I replace them when we start traveling again.

FastEagle
You could have saved a lot of aggravation and tire changes by switching to LT's a long time ago.

But ST's are superior for towing?....
__________________
Russell
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE

'16 GMC Sierra 3500HD
drfife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2015, 08:03 PM   #64
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,474
For those that care. I do have posts with an outline of the steps needed to learn how or if you can realistically change from ST to LT type tires on your trailer.
Some may incorrectly believe it is somehow illegal to change your tires, but I am not aware of any law that prevents vehicle owners in the US from modifying their personal vehicle as long as then ensure basic safety features are retained.
__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:45 PM   #65
Senior Member
 
FastEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
For those that care. I do have posts with an outline of the steps needed to learn how or if you can realistically change from ST to LT type tires on your trailer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Some may incorrectly believe it is somehow illegal to change your tires, but I am not aware of any law that prevents vehicle owners in the US from modifying their personal vehicle as long as then ensure basic safety features are retained.
Many of the well known tire manufacturers have followed suit with the actions outlined in the following information from one of them. How do you propose using their tires for replacements for ST tires and get warranty coverage from them for the replacements?

************************************************** *********************


From the Michelin Passenger and Light Truck Replacement tire limited Warranty.

WHAT IS NOT COVERED

This warranty does not cover tires damaged due to misuse, abuse or accident such as:
– Road hazards (e.g., cuts, snags, bruises, impact damage or punctures);
– Incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance or improper repair;
Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse;
– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of 2/32nds of an inch or more across the face of the tread on the same tire);
– Accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration or vandalism;
– Flat spotting caused by improper storage or brakelock;
– The addition of liquid, solid or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen or carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances);
– Cosmetic ozone or weather cracking;
– Use of MICHELIN® Self-Supporting Zero Pressure (ZP) tires without a properly operating low air pressure warning system.
Use of MICHELIN tires that is inconsistent with the safety and/or
maintenance information provided in your owner’s manual.
************************************************** *********************

From the Keystone 2014 generic owner’s manual.

Tire Safety;

Tire Size:

To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the (OE) tire dealer. (Addresses and phone numbers provided for all of the OE tire suppliers in the owner’s manual).


FastEagle

On edit: Verbally, Michelin’s tire technical experts have stressed that Michelin LT tires are not suitable replacements for Special Trailer tires installed as Original Equipment.
FastEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 05:51 PM   #66
Senior Member
 
drfife's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 2,123
So, folks have to suffer multiple tire failures because the manufacture elected to install cheap ST tires?

What good is the warranty when you are stranded on a trip with an ST tite failure? Rational thought would be to install LT's and decrease the odds of tire failure. Warranty be damned.....

BTW, my 5th wheel came with Michelin XTA LT tires, so I'm golden, right?
__________________
Russell
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE

'16 GMC Sierra 3500HD
drfife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 09:35 PM   #67
Senior Member
 
FastEagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by drfife View Post
So, folks have to suffer multiple tire failures because the manufacture elected to install cheap ST tires?

What good is the warranty when you are stranded on a trip with an ST tite failure? Rational thought would be to install LT's and decrease the odds of tire failure. Warranty be damned.....

BTW, my 5th wheel came with Michelin XTA LT tires, so I'm golden, right?
Yep, and those are European designed trailer radials optimized for low bed, high cube trailers operations in line haul applications. They have a 62 MPH speed rating.

Tire and Retread Selector | Michelin Truck

FastEagle
FastEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 09:51 PM   #68
Senior Member
 
drfife's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 2,123
So far so good. I have had much better luck with the LT European design than I did with ST tires on my previous trailer. In total eight failures: 5 Goodyear Marathons, 2 Carlisles and one Greenball. The only brand that never failed me were Maxxis.

I know many folks towing with XTA's. No failures. One guy has a 7 year old set and he tows far and often and always well above 62.

If you are happy with ST's and believe they are the right choice, I'm OK with that.

But don't denegrate those of us that are tired of repeated failures and saw the light and now run LT's. Fear mongering over warranty coverage is a desparate ploy to support your ST loyalty.

I'm happy with my OE LT's.
__________________
Russell
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE

'16 GMC Sierra 3500HD
drfife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 11:17 PM   #69
Senior Member
 
caissiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,312
My LT tires on the unit are now 6 years old and I have no fear.
Never lost a tire in 13 years. Lost 2 ST trailer tires per year before using LT tires 13 Years ago. So after 20 tires in 10 years I have a reason to use LTs.
__________________
Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
caissiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 10:51 AM   #70
Senior Member
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEagle View Post
Many of the well known tire manufacturers have followed suit with the actions outlined in the following information from one of them. How do you propose using their tires for replacements for ST tires and get warranty coverage from them for the replacements?
************************************************** *********************
From the Michelin Passenger and Light Truck Replacement tire limited Warranty.
WHAT IS NOT COVERED
This warranty does not cover tires damaged due to misuse, abuse or accident such as:
– Road hazards (e.g., cuts, snags, bruises, impact damage or punctures);
– Incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance or improper repair;
Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse;
– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of 2/32nds of an inch or more across the face of the tread on the same tire);
– Accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration or vandalism;
– Flat spotting caused by improper storage or brakelock;
– The addition of liquid, solid or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen or carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances);
– Cosmetic ozone or weather cracking;
– Use of MICHELIN® Self-Supporting Zero Pressure (ZP) tires without a properly operating low air pressure warning system.
Use of MICHELIN tires that is inconsistent with the safety and/or
maintenance information provided in your owner’s manual.
************************************************** *********************
From the Keystone 2014 generic owner’s manual.
Tire Safety;
Tire Size:
To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the (OE) tire dealer. (Addresses and phone numbers provided for all of the OE tire suppliers in the owner’s manual).
FastEagle
On edit: Verbally, Michelin’s tire technical experts have stressed that Michelin LT tires are not suitable replacements for Special Trailer tires installed as Original Equipment.
I haven't run Michelin tires for many many years, so I have never worried about their warranty.
I note that most ST tires carry a 1 year or less warranty so not sure how to evaluate this supposed coverage. Other than Goodyear who seem willing to stand behind their Marathon ST line, do you know of any/many who have had success with meaningful warranty coverage claim on an ST tire?

Now as to using LT tires and a perceived "misapplication". If I have the weigh slips and can demonstrate compliance with published Load/Inflation tables as well as having a 15% reserve load it would be difficult for a MFG to claim that a manufacturing defect of lets say cured in Foreign Material was somehow my fault.

I think the major difference between me and 98% of RV users is I know what a manufacturing defect actually is vs what is a service related condition.

When I was racing and towing a 26' enclosed car hauler I did have a tire have what might have been a warrantable condition at about 3500 miles on the OE ST tires but since the tires were more than a year old there was no warrantee in effect. At that time I swtched to LT tires with the size & inflation based on the math outlined in my blog post. 65,000 miles later the LT tires were still in good condition when I sold the trailer.

As you know I have made many posts on this and other forums showing the errors many make in assuming that most tire problems are the result of "defective" tires.
I have also personally investigated tires with problems and based on my work a recall was initiated covering some 6500 tires.

There are a few MAJOR contributing reasons for the high failure rate observed on towables.
1. Overload: as you know almost 60% of RVs have one or more tires in overload
2. Under-inflation
3. Insufficient reserve load capacity: RV assemblers should be selecting tires with at least 15% reserve load but many in fact choose 0% as they rush to deliver the cheepest product to consumers who don't really know what they are buying.
4. High Interply shear (this is covered in detail on my blog)
5. Incomplete or superficial inspection of tires ( this is also covered in my blog where I even have a video)
6. High heat history which can lead to belt and/or tread separation. This comes from over-speed, overload, failure to shield tires from Sun heat (no white covers as shown in my blog)

Remember I don't just live 13 miles away from the Technical Centers for two of the 3 largest tire companies in the world. I spent 40 years working as a Design and Quality Engineer at one of those centers. Of course I may only have two tire design patents so maybe that means I'm not as good as some other engineers but I'm willing to pit my failed tire inspection capabilities up against any other tire engineer in the world when it comes to Passenger & LT type tires and feel I could hold my own on TBR type tires. (I've only done a few Agricultural or Mining tires, and haven't done Indianapolis type tires since the early 70's so may not be up to date on the latest technology in those tires).
__________________

__________________
Retired Design & Quality Tire Eng. Read my tire blog RVTireSafety.NET to learn more about RV tires, valves & wheels. Read THIS post on why Tires Fail
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tires



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
19.5" Truck Wheels and Tires drfife Excel Owner's Forum 26 11-25-2014 04:09 PM
Tires Recall (check your tires) TCHB Class C Motorhome Discussions 37 09-03-2014 09:49 PM
Dolly tires sliding in turns with Tow Dolly hdzcar Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 9 08-13-2014 05:58 PM
Changing out PS tires to LT tires? Help! Sheripoms Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 9 04-01-2014 09:16 PM
5th wheel - strength, durability, with lift? Palmeris Full-Timers 6 03-17-2014 12:16 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.