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04-24-2018, 12:23 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hot Springs, VA
Posts: 1,927
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Trailer Brakes
How much I don't know....
I guess trailer brakes are either disc or drum, but how are they controlled (electric)? How does it work?
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04-24-2018, 12:29 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithnorv
How much I don't know....
I guess trailer brakes are either disc or drum, but how are they controlled (electric)? How does it work?
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This website explains it much better than I;
https://www.hitchweb.com/blog/post/2...ic-brakes-work
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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04-24-2018, 12:30 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 653
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I think the vast majority are electric. Hydraulic and disc tend to be on the high end 5th wheels.
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2015 Ram 2500 Big Horn, 6.7 cummins, Crew Cab, 4x4
Mid 2016 Outdoors RV Creekside 23DBS, w/backcountry x4 and armor options.
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04-24-2018, 12:47 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hot Springs, VA
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN
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Thanks. That explains how drum brakes work from an electric controller. Does the disc brake also work from an electric controller? Are there any brake fluid lines on a trailer or is all electric?
Ah found the answer.....
https://roadslesstraveled.us/trailer...el-rv-upgrade/
Got to love the internet, it's handier than a shirt pocket.
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04-25-2018, 02:33 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Full Timing. When I park I'm home
Posts: 1,369
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My hydraulic disk brakes run off an electric brake controller that sends the signal to a pump on the trailer. There are definitely brake fluid lines to hydraulic brakes. They are just like your car only they receive a signal from the tow vehicle telling them to activate. As I understand the harder you press the peddle the more electric it sends and the harder the brakes are applied.
Brad
__________________
2004 Volvo, 2009 smart car
2008 Hitch Hiker Champagne
Full timing January 2010
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04-25-2018, 03:43 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hot Springs, VA
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bddadles
My hydraulic disk brakes run off an electric brake controller that sends the signal to a pump on the trailer. There are definitely brake fluid lines to hydraulic brakes. They are just like your car only they receive a signal from the tow vehicle telling them to activate. As I understand the harder you press the peddle the more electric it sends and the harder the brakes are applied.
Brad
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So I assume there is a reservoir for the fluid on the trailer somewhere, kind of like brake fluid on a car.
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04-25-2018, 04:18 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,994
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My boat trailer has hydraulic disc brakes, on the tongue is a reservoir or a master cylinder, 1 brake line comes out of it and goes to the front axle. Then it tee's off and goes to the brake calipers on each side of the trailer. (Only have brakes on the front axle) When I push on the truck brake pedal and my truck slows down, the boat trailer begins to push against the ball, the trailer tongue slides in as weight from the boat pushes against the truck, which pushes the reservoir,which in turn activates the disc brakes. The harder or faster the truck stops the harder or faster the boat trailer stops. I know this isn't exactly what you are asking, but it's how they work on a boat trailer. When I bought the boat, it had electric drum brakes with a battery mounted on the tongue like posted above. I ripped all that off and installed what I described above, Drum electric brakes don't mix with salt water.
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2004 Montana 2955RL, 400 watt solar, 2000 watt inverter/charger, 4-Interstate 225AH 6volt golf cart batteries, All LED lights,Champion Remote start 3- fuel option 3100/3400 inverter/gen.- 2000 F-350 7.3 4x4 long bed crew cab SRW.
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04-25-2018, 05:21 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weredoingit
My boat trailer has hydraulic disc brakes, on the tongue is a reservoir or a master cylinder, 1 brake line comes out of it and goes to the front axle. Then it tee's off and goes to the brake calipers on each side of the trailer. (Only have brakes on the front axle) When I push on the truck brake pedal and my truck slows down, the boat trailer begins to push against the ball, the trailer tongue slides in as weight from the boat pushes against the truck, which pushes the reservoir,which in turn activates the disc brakes. The harder or faster the truck stops the harder or faster the boat trailer stops. I know this isn't exactly what you are asking, but it's how they work on a boat trailer. When I bought the boat, it had electric drum brakes with a battery mounted on the tongue like posted above. I ripped all that off and installed what I described above, Drum electric brakes don't mix with salt water.
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You are describing surge brakes. Boat trailers, U Haul trailers and many tow dollys use them. They are also used on hot asphalt, pothole patching trailers.
Some are drum and some are disk.
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04-25-2018, 06:25 PM
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#9
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Community Moderator
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Central, Arkansas
Posts: 11,202
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RV trailer disk brakes are electric over hydraulic. The brake controller sends an electric signal to a solenoid that pushes a hydraulic cylinder into a brake master cylinder. This engages the disk brakes. Not all brake controllers will work with this setup. It is also usually only seen on really heavy and large fifth wheels. I hope manwithnorv buys an rv soon so he can enjoy using it instead of focusing on learning all this random stuff
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2004 Beaver Monterey Laguna IV
Cummins ISC 350HP Allison 3000 6 speed
2020 Chevy Equinox Premier 2.0t 9 speed AWD
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04-25-2018, 06:40 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Excel Owners Club Winnebago Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 6,777
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I replaced the drum brakes on my Excel 5th shortly after I bought it and upgraded the axles/springs from 6K to 7K capacity. Best mod ever made.
There is a brake controller in the truck's cab. It sends a variable voltage to the trailer depending on how hard I apply the brakes. There is also a hand lever on the brake controller that will also apply the trailer brakes. This is good if you want to straighten out the trailer or just test if the system is working good. I've never needed to use it to straighten the rig.
This electric signal activates the EoH (Electric over Hydraulic) pump. There is a brake fluid tank on the pump. It can apply something like 1600 PSI to the brakes. Brake lines go to each of the four wheel hubs. Here the setup is like disk brakes on a car/truck.
There is also a break-away switch that will operate the pump if the trailer becomes unhitched. Just before all hell breaks loose.
At least on my EoH pump it draws its primary power from the trailer's 12 volt system, not from the truck's controller. While hitched and cord connected the trailer's and truck's 12 volt systems are common with a shared hot and ground. The signal from the truck's brake controller regulates how much power is applied from the trailer's 12v system. The break-away switch operates a different portion of the circuit in the pump. Key point, for the break-away function to work there must be 12v and plenty of amps to lock those brakes down hard.
On my and most others I think, there is an adjust knob on the brake controller that will limit how much voltage is send to the trailer. If set too high, even a moderate brake pressure will lock up the trailer's brakes. You need to "tune" this setting for your setup by trial and error. I find the best setting may vary by the trailer's weight on a given trip. I always test it between my house and the first stop sign, happens to be a real good place in my case to stop several times in the middle of the road.
On my rig the trailer's brakes alone can stop both trailer and truck in a short distance. Not a good idea because it will leave rubber on the road and plenty of smoke.
Hope this helps a little. If you're ever going to be towing on step grades disc brakes make a world of difference.
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Fred & Denise (RVM157) New Mexico
2007 Excel Classic 30RSO & Coach House 272XL E450
2007 RAM 3500, Diesel, 6Spd Auto, SWD, 4x4, CC & LB
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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04-25-2018, 07:38 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hot Springs, VA
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdracr39
RV trailer disk brakes are electric over hydraulic. The brake controller sends an electric signal to a solenoid that pushes a hydraulic cylinder into a brake master cylinder. This engages the disk brakes. Not all brake controllers will work with this setup. It is also usually only seen on really heavy and large fifth wheels. I hope manwithnorv buys an rv soon so he can enjoy using it instead of focusing on learning all this random stuff
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I'm not done yet Spdracr39...I still don't know how many screw there are in a 5r. I just got a lot from Rarebear's post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rarebear.nm
I replaced the drum brakes on my Excel 5th shortly after I bought it and upgraded the axles/springs from 6K to 7K capacity. Best mod ever made.
There is a brake controller in the truck's cab. It sends a variable voltage to the trailer depending on how hard I apply the brakes. There is also a hand lever on the brake controller that will also apply the trailer brakes. This is good if you want to straighten out the trailer or just test if the system is working good. I've never needed to use it to straighten the rig.
This electric signal activates the EoH (Electric over Hydraulic) pump. There is a brake fluid tank on the pump. It can apply something like 1600 PSI to the brakes. Brake lines go to each of the four wheel hubs. Here the setup is like disk brakes on a car/truck......
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So Rarebear. On the 1 ton diesel DWR GMC Denali I looked at, there was a brake trailering option on the dash, is that a built in controller for the EoH disc brake system or are you talking about an after market add-on?
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04-25-2018, 08:31 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Excel Owners Club Winnebago Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 6,777
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Manwithnorv-
I have a 2007 RAM 3500 I tow with and have no first hand knowledge about the newer trucks with built-in brake controllers. But from what I've read people have variable success with using factory controller for EoH systems. I'm not really up to speed on what these issues are. Besides some of the owners wind up adding an after marker brake controller. If you like Google "built-in brake controller issues with eoh" to get some idea of these issues. Keep in mind that the "brake" wire would need to be removed from the factory controller and connected to the new controller.
There are some big differences in the quality of brake controllers. I would not try to save a few bucks there. Mine is a Tekonsha Prodigy P2 and I'm very happy with it. If I were getting a new one I'd go with the Tekonsha Prodigy P3. I assume there are other very good units as well, but I've not looked much recently. If you Google it you'll learn more there.
Good luck...
__________________
Fred & Denise (RVM157) New Mexico
2007 Excel Classic 30RSO & Coach House 272XL E450
2007 RAM 3500, Diesel, 6Spd Auto, SWD, 4x4, CC & LB
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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04-25-2018, 10:02 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Vancouver Wash
Posts: 7,227
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Prodigy 3 here with Titan discs
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04-26-2018, 07:04 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 3,722
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Rarebear did a good job of describing how disc brakes work on a towable RV. Unfortunately they are seldom supplied by a manufacturer even on the 'premium' brands except the 6 figure custom builds. They may be an extra cost and very desirable option on some though. I have added them to our 5er after a couple close calls.
The 'standard' electric brakes are actuated, again by the TVs manufacturers integrated (late models) or by a Tekonsha Prodigy or similar brand after market controller. My personal term for these brakes are magnet brakes in that they are actuated by an electromagnet and a cam. Apply your TV brakes, the magnet is energized against a vertical surface and the cam attached to it draws the brake shoes against the horizontal drum surface. These brake have been used for about as long as TTs have had brakes. On a smaller trailer, they are usually good enough. On a large - 30 feet and up is probably a good starting point - they are barely adequate, with stopping distances at least 2x a disc system.
The basic disc system is an actuator with fluid reservoir, hydraulic lines rotors instead of drums and a set of calipers. These are virtually identical to a motor vehicle with the exception of how they are actuated. Cost wise - DIY, 1500-1800 dollars depending on axle capacity. Specialty shop, 2200-3000 dollars which includes the labor. For all intents, these brakes are adaptations of an early '90s GM SAE caliper and rotor system and use easily found at any auto parts store GM brake pads.
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Dave W
2011 Ford F250 6.7 Lariat CCLB, Gone but not forgotten
2014 Montana High Country 343RL (sold it!)
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