Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > 5th Wheel Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-17-2018, 07:53 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 306
Wall Construction

Looking at specs for FR Cardinal which says the walls are vacuum bonded laminated walls. Is this standard, better than standard? The Vilano says that it has, High Gloss Fiberglass Exterior. Is this also something most don't have? How should I evaluate exterior wall construction (not framing or insulation)? Tell me what to stay far away from, what's par and what's better or best? I need to know more about exterior wall construction.
__________________

manwithnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-17-2018, 07:59 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 31,279
Ever seen pictures of trailers that have neen in an accident? Most just explode as there's no or very little structural strength in a vacuum bonded wall.
__________________

__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2018, 08:03 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Ever seen pictures of trailers that have neen in an accident? Most just explode as there's no or very little structural strength in a vacuum bonded wall.
So? Are you saying they all have this type of construction? Are you saying stay away from those RVs with this construction? Can you elaborate a bit more?
manwithnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 06:32 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 656
There are 3 basic types, vacuum laminated, pinch rolled and hung wall. The first 2 use rigid foam insulation and the first is the best. Hung wall can use rigid or loose insulation, the exterior skin is glued to the studs only. It is the weakest but easiest to repair as the skin can be replaced. With the others, the entire wall panel must be replaced if major damage occurs. All types of trailer wall construction will be destroyed in an accident.

Vacuum laminated is also the most expensive due to the equipment needed and least flexible for design ( like location of outlets, etc). It also may use fewer studs since the entire wall supports weight, not just the studs.
dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 10:35 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayle1 View Post
There are 3 basic types, vacuum laminated, pinch rolled and hung wall. The first 2 use rigid foam insulation and the first is the best. Hung wall can use rigid or loose insulation, the exterior skin is glued to the studs only. It is the weakest but easiest to repair as the skin can be replaced. With the others, the entire wall panel must be replaced if major damage occurs. All types of trailer wall construction will be destroyed in an accident.

Vacuum laminated is also the most expensive due to the equipment needed and least flexible for design ( like location of outlets, etc). It also may use fewer studs since the entire wall supports weight, not just the studs.
Do you know if most manufacturers use one or the other of these?
manwithnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 01:23 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithnorv View Post
Do you know if most manufacturers use one or the other of these?
I don't know, you have to find out on specific RV lines that you are interested in. Each manufacturer can us different methods on different model lines. Cougar High Country might be different than standard Cougar. Not saying that is the case, just an example of possible differences that can exist on near similar lines. But construction differences should be insignificant to most owners. If one method was significantly better or cheaper, then everyone would use that method.
dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 01:37 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
brucev's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithnorv View Post
Looking at specs for FR Cardinal which says the walls are vacuum bonded laminated walls. Is this standard, better than standard? The Vilano says that it has, High Gloss Fiberglass Exterior. Is this also something most don't have? How should I evaluate exterior wall construction (not framing or insulation)? Tell me what to stay far away from, what's par and what's better or best? I need to know more about exterior wall construction.
My last RV was a hi-low trailer with laminated wall panels. They seemed very strong and stable, but then I never wrecked it. I don't remember exactly, but it was fiberglass on the exterior, about 1" white foam insulation and wood panel on the enterior. All three section were then laminated (glued) to each other. The top had an aluminum exterior but the foam nd wood were the same. I had my 200+ pounds on the roof many times with never an issue. Good luck and safe travels when you do decide.
brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 01:49 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 31,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayle1 View Post
There are 3 basic types, vacuum laminated, pinch rolled and hung wall. The first 2 use rigid foam insulation and the first is the best. Hung wall can use rigid or loose insulation, the exterior skin is glued to the studs only. It is the weakest but easiest to repair as the skin can be replaced. With the others, the entire wall panel must be replaced if major damage occurs. All types of trailer wall construction will be destroyed in an accident.

Vacuum laminated is also the most expensive due to the equipment needed and least flexible for design ( like location of outlets, etc). It also may use fewer studs since the entire wall supports weight, not just the studs.
Hung wall is probably the strongest as there are stringers and studs throughout. The vacuum bonded usually relied on the foam sandwich for it's "strength" and the window and other openings sometimes don't have anything supporting them but the wall itself.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 02:08 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
CecilD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 219
Generally, hung fiberglass walls are on higher end units as they require expensive aluminum stud construction, generally on 16" centers. I have hung walls and in my mind all that aluminum studding aids with heat transfer. One advantage is they do not delaminate as they were never laminated in the first place. There are a lot more moulding screws with hung fiberglass, each a source for possible water intrusion.

The one wall construction to stay away from is one that has already started to delaminate or rigs that have a history of delamination.
CecilD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:23 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 60
As long as they stay laminated, composites are incredibly strong and light-weight. They've become increasingly popular structures for aircraft because they're incredibly strong and light weight.

I have an airfoil I had to make for a class in getting my aircraft mechanic certifications. It's e-glass fabric wrapped over Owens Corning extruded polystyrene insulation vacuum bonded with epoxy resin. I could use it to level the 5er. The individual components, however, would be destroyed if I tried it. Therein lies the problem once they start to delaminate. They're a little difficult to repair without vacuum bagging equipment, as you're at the mercy of tempurature and humidity for quality of the epoxy cure.

Still, for an RV, I prefer ease of repair over cosmetics or weight savings.
__________________
John Morgan
1996 Western RV Alpenlite 31RL Augusta
1999 Ford F-350 XLT Crew 7.3 Powerstroke, ATS torque converter, Edge Products Juice Box
AKFlyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:36 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilD View Post
I have hung walls and in my mind all that aluminum studding aids with heat transfer. One advantage is they do not delaminate as they were never laminated in the first place.

.
You are right, all that aluminum studding does transfer heat, and so do the window and door frames. But you are wrong about the possibility of delamination with hung wall construction. The skin is a sandwich of fiberglass glued to one or two layers of 1/8" luan plywood, and this plywood is the point of delamination . The plywood swells with moisture and the individual layers separate.

The only units that won't delaminate are ones that use Adzel instead of luan plywood for the fiberglass backer.
dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:47 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spicewood, Tx
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Hung wall is probably the strongest as there are stringers and studs throughout. The vacuum bonded usually relied on the foam sandwich for it's "strength" and the window and other openings sometimes don't have anything supporting them but the wall itself.
Vacuum laminated walls may also have studs on 16" centers but they aren't required to achieve the same strength as a hung wall unit. The differences are comparable to SIPs (structural insulated panel) in residential construction vs stick built construction. But a vacuum laminated wall will have uniform strength across its entire area while a hung wall will be strong at each stud but very weak in between. So if a tree falls on the trailer, in may slice thru or not depending on location.

But again all methods used on trailers are adequate.
dayle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:51 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 232
They are all egg shells. The turning point is keeping them sealed along the roof lines, window seals, etc. Any of them involved in a wreck will make the Humpty Dumpty video. Inspect roof seals annually, re-seal as necessary...happy camper.
__________________
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
"The Gritz-Carlton"
Funding Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 12:58 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayle1 View Post
The only units that won't delaminate are ones that use Adzel instead of luan plywood for the fiberglass backer.
Are you saying that ALL RV's not constructed with Adzel WILL delaminate? I'm assuming that most manufacturers currently don't use Adzel? Is that wrong? How big of a problem is delamination? 10%, 50%?
__________________

manwithnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1989 Winnebago wall construction. rickf Vintage RV's 11 02-22-2014 01:52 PM
Wall construction on 2000 35U on back of shower? sswilson Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 12 11-24-2013 07:45 AM
Beaver Contessa wall construction jegbflat Class A Motorhome Discussions 6 07-28-2013 06:47 AM
Wilderness wall construction Maine Mike 5th Wheel Discussion 6 06-05-2013 04:49 PM
Wall Construction Detail Retired and Happy Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 9 01-20-2010 05:45 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.