Community Forums

damraw50 · 02-23-2011, 10:49 AM

I know you've probably seen this question a million times but here it
goes again. I know the unloaded weight is 14500. The truck we are looking
at is rated 16,100. Realistically how much added weight does a full timer load up their 5th with. Will we be right on the hairy edge?

Thanks in advance
Damon

hooverbill · 02-23-2011, 11:20 AM

Most 5th wheels are used at or near the GW...the empty weight is virtually useless information. Also, the weak link with 5th wheel tow vehicles is the ability to carry the pin weight. That 16.1 tow rating is, again, not much use unless you know the cargo capacity for carrying the PW. Check the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left side of the truck's frame.

A 5th wheel at 16k usually needs a diesel dually to stay within specs.

RustyJC · 02-23-2011, 11:26 AM

Hate to tell you this, but you're working with 2 fictitious numbers.

1. If you go weigh the trailer as it sits on the dealer's lot, I can almost guarantee you that it will weigh more than the "dry weight" taken from a brochure.

2. A truck's "trailer tow rating" is calculated as the truck's gross combination weight rating (GCWR) minus the truck's curb weight. Fine, except the curb weight the manufacturer uses for this calculation is for a base truck with no options or accessories (like a 5th wheel hitch, for instance) and only a 150 lb driver.

Just for grins, find out the GCWR of your truck as it is equipped (typically in the owner's manual), the GVWR of your truck (on the driver's door post) and the GVWR of the trailer you're considering (on the left front of the trailer or from the brochure). Then, load up your truck with full fuel tank(s), driver, passengers, cargo, etc. just like you're going camping and take it to the scales - most truck stops will weigh you for $8 to $10. This will give you your truck's actual laden curb weight (LCW). With this information:

Truck's GCWR minus truck's LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer.

Truck's GVWR minus truck's LCW = maximum allowable pin (5th wheel) or tongue (TT) weight of loaded trailer.

A conservative approach in sizing a tow vehicle and trailer is to use the trailer's GVWR as the total weight of the loaded trailer and ~20% (5th wheel) or ~12% (TT) of the trailer's GVWR as the pin/tongue weight of the loaded trailer. If these numbers are less than those from the formulas above, you're within the truck manufacturer's GCWR and GVWR ratings.

Rusty

Ray,IN · 02-23-2011, 12:40 PM

two thousand pounds CCC is not unreasonable, if you manage it closely. The caveat to this is, you must actually weigh that 5er to accurately determine the empty weight, otherwise you are operating blind.

**NLOVNIT** · 02-23-2011, 02:43 PM

I would suggest you read the information on THIS WEBSITE & use its formulas for calculating your numbers.

Lori-

ralper · 02-23-2011, 03:08 PM

I read that a single person will carry 2000 lbs of "STUFF". Add a woman to the mix and add another 1000 lbs of "STUFF".
I, as a single male full time RVer carry 2000 lbs of "STUFF". Actually I am a little over.
My truck weights are OK and my 5er weights are OK but where they get you is the truck gross combined weight rating. That is the weight of both the truck and trailer. I am right on the edge of this. Yes it is time to do some cleaning out of "STUFF" I do not use.

TXiceman · 02-23-2011, 06:23 PM

Let' hope you are looking at a well equipped 1 ton dually. Follow the lead in Rusty's post.

ken

damraw50 · 02-25-2011, 08:37 AM

Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice! It was very helpful. We bought a 2008 Chevy 3500 Dually Diesel and are pretty confidant it will do the job. I have another question, the truck we bought has a flip-up ball hitch for a gooseneck attatchment, and I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience-opinions about using that kind of system vs a traditional 5th wheel hitch? It's less money, and it doesn't take up much space in the bed.

Thanks in advance,

Damon

RustyJC · 02-25-2011, 08:46 AM

I would suggest a search on "gooseneck adapters" here on iRV2 - lots of discussion on this topic. From an engineering perspective, the gooseneck adapter is an extended lever arm (think "cheater pipe") that greatly increases the torques applied to the 5th wheel pin box and frame areas. Frame failures can be (and have been) a result of using unapproved gooseneck adapters. Rather than take anecdotal evidence on which to base your decision, however, you should contact your 5th wheel manufacturer (NOT a dealer) and get their OK to use a gooseneck adapter, thus ensuring that they have designed their frame and pin box to accept these higher torque loads.

An alternative that many of us (myself included) use when both gooseneck and 5th wheel towing capabilities are required with a clean bed when neither is in use is the B&W Turnoverball gooseneck hitch with B&W's companion 5th wheel hitch that utilizes the gooseneck hitch receiver - see HERE and click on the Turnover Ball and Companion tabs.

Rusty

TXiceman · 02-25-2011, 06:22 PM

As noted, most 5th wheel manufacturers will not warranty a trailer frame using a G/N adapter. As an engineer, I would not use the adapter on a 5er. A few manufacturers will build a special trailer frame to handle the extra stresses from using an adapter.

Why are they sold? There is a lot of stuff sold that should never be on the market.

ken

Ray,IN · 02-25-2011, 09:07 PM

To follow what Ken said; if you have a Lippert Industries built frame the warranty is voided when you use a gooseneck adapter Lippert Components, Inc. - Informational Publication
or modify the frame in any way.

damraw50 · 02-26-2011, 08:34 AM

Thanks again for all the info and advice, I will definitely avoid the gooseneck idea for my 5th wheel!! Aside from the immediate lure of a clear bed and lower cost, it does seem a bit shaky.

Damon

JIMNLIN · 03-03-2011, 06:56 PM

If your wanting to tow your 5er with the GN adapter I would contact your trailer manufacture as some manufactures have no issues with doing so. Some have even offered the option.
A google on the suject is a bit more subjective rather than a couple of opinions from some folks that may not like the adapter or don't feel that other folks should not use one. Lots of folks tow their 5ers with a GN adapter with no issues. Ask the trailer manufacture.

Unloaded weights is a good place to start. When you get your choices I would contact the manufacture and ask for their shipping weight for a unit with the options you want. They can get within a couple of hundred lbs with a highly optioned unit.

The 3500 DRW Chevy is a good performer for 5ers that size.

TXiceman · 03-04-2011, 05:31 AM

I have seen 2 high end 5ers that had the bottom of the nose torn apart getting the frame reinforced and rewelded. Both were towed using the GN adapter.

Yes some folks do get away with using a the adapter, but as a practicing mechanical engineer, I would never advise anyone to use a GN adapter without checking with the RV manufacturer first. DO NOT check with the dealer or the GN adapter manufacturer.

There are a lot of product sold on the open market that should not be sold...so buyer beware.

As for loaded weighs, we full-timed for a year in our 36.5' Avion 5er and we were within about 500# of hitting our GVWR for the trailer. The weight adds up much faster than you think when you start adding clothes, food and all of the other necessary items. It is pretty easy to add 2000# to the unloaded weight when full-timing.

Ken