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Old 03-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #15
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A lot of what the salesman tells you is due to his lack of education on the product he is selling. He does not know, so he makes up an answer or goes on the basis of what his great Aunt Minnie's gardeners cousin told her. He should say that he does not know but will get an answer.

The dealers want uneducated sales people to sell to uneducated customers. Having been is sales for so long and an engineer, I can smell a line of BS from the door as soon as I walk into a dealership, RV or car. Sometime I will have a little fun and jerk the salesman's and sales manager's chain. I have gotten up and walked out of more than one dealer due to the BS treatment I was getting. I for one appreciate a professional salesman that is honest. More people need to just walk away from the sales tricks.

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Old 03-08-2012, 09:55 AM   #16
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When I first retired I got a job at an RV Dealership as a sales person. There were 9 of us there. Of those 9, I was the only one who had experience with an RV. The rest had been car salesman and only 1 of them owned an RV. And that 1 RV was parked on a property only used when hunting.

I got many lectures from the sales manager because I would take people to the computer and look up the towing guide to see what their ratings were. Then I did the math with them using the trailers GVWR to find them a unit. A lot of folks walked out dissapointed. But I was told I was supposed to "make the numbers work". e.g.: The other sales people would use generic numbers for the TV tow ratings (like a 3/4 ton can pull a 12K trailer) and unloaded weight of the trailer and keep it just under thier tow rating. These guys were selling trailers with an unloaded weight barely 100 #'s less than the tow rating. After 3 weeks I quit. I told the sales manager I couldn't consciously put people in dangerous situations as I walked out.

I'm not going to say that all dealerships are like this. I've run across some very knowledgeable sale people. But many of the sales people I worked with really did not know how to calculate the weights.

I wouldn't mind doing the sales thing again as long as it was a reputable dealership who let me do it right.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:59 AM   #17
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The dealers want uneducated sales people to sell to uneducated customers. Having been is sales for so long and an engineer, I can smell a line of BS from the door as soon as I walk into a dealership, RV or car.
But I bet 80% of people can't, and that's what they are hoping.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #18
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That's Funny. So you are saying 80% of the people out there looking at RV's are uneducated. Bit of generlization of a lot of people I would say. This is my last comment because this is getting away from the original topic & just salesmen bashing.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:21 PM   #19
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I would find it hard to believe 80% of the people are ignorant when shopping for an RV. I would bet that 80% are well prepared and do a lot of research. For most people this is a complicated purchase, and there are many resources out there( here of course being a great one). Most people know what they want and don't really listen the advice of a salesperson when they go looking.

Yes, I'm sure there are many that are foolish enough to go out there and just depend on the salesman, but in this day and age, those numbers grow less and less.

When I started selling cars and trucks in the 70s, less than 10% of the customers did research and there was always a constant push by the factories for the sales people to be educated in the product. I suspect that until recently, most RV sales people were not encouraged to know the product. Today, I am told that the factories do strongly encourage the dealers in the areas of customer service and product education.

The purchase of an RV, is no small purchase anymore. I would be very surprised if people took it as casually as they do when purchasing a car.

Instead of "screwing" with the salesperson for sport, I suggest you do you homework, TELL the salesperson what you want, and do not deviate from your plan. As far as I am concerned, they are just there to facilitate the purchase. Also, almost no one would buy a used home without an inspection, but how many of us bought that used RV that was at least 1/2 the price of their home and not call up someone for an inspection.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:18 PM   #20
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I brought my forth rv last year the DW and I looked at a lot I mean alot of rv lots,and talked to a lot of salesman, I can honestly say that I new more about the rv's then 75% that were trying to sell me, one of them I had to
show him where to hook the power cord.
most rv salesman just want the green and never see you again
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #21
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RV shows are fun to go to.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:15 PM   #22
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You are right smack2020 as long as you leave your credit card at home
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:08 AM   #23
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Not sure about 80% or 20% uninformed, but sure are a lot of people on these forums that ask questions about a purchase AFTER is is done...
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by kb0zke View Post
A 3/4 ton truck, properly equipped, might be able to drag it down the road. Stopping it might be another matter. Certainly it wouldn't be very much fun to drive.
Not within the 3/4 ton truck's GVWR, and probably not within its rear axle GAWR. That's why it's essential to do ALL the math and not go by the "manufacturer's trailer tow rating".

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Old 03-17-2012, 06:33 PM   #25
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Those folks buying their first tt or 5ver may know a lot about some stuff but they won't know what it's like to actually tow and set up/tear down camp until they have done it.
Unfortunately, they want to either use a current suv or truck as that saves them money. Or they'll go strictly by the numbers and go as small as possible. I know, because I did that.
I learned via OJT. Now , my tv is f350 cc drw.
Some people like to ease into things but tt's and 5vers don't work that way.
Salesman want to make a living so they sell telling white lies. We all do at times. The customer is ultimately responsible so buyer beware. Why is a ford better than a chevy? We all have our preferences.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:07 PM   #26
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Twelve years ago we bought our first 5th wheel. We specifically made sure we'd be able to safely tow it with our 1/2 ton Dodge, specifically ordered to be used as a tow vehicle.

A short time later, I was at a local dealer for some parts, and when leaving I noticed a large 5th wheel in the lot. I don't recall exactly what it was, but I DO recall it being quite tall and 29 or 30 feet long. It had at least 1 long slide. I recall we'd looked at this particular 5th wheel and rejected it because it had a DRY weight of almost 8000 pounds and our half ton was only rated to tow 8000. With water and propane and junk and food and all the stuff people carry, I'm guessing this thing would have to weigh in at 9500 pounds or more, so it was WAY out of our weight range.

The reason it attracted my attention was that a sales person was directing a driver in a 1/2 ton Ford pickup toward it to hook up. Being curious, I hung out next to my truck, watched, and listened to the conversation... They got the truck under the trailer, and started bringing the unit down. And down. And down. The truck kept squatting lower and lower. Eventually, the front jacks came off the ground, but I STILL recall thinking this poor truck was all the way down on the bump stops. It probably wasn't, but compared to ours, which went down approximately an inch when we put the 5th wheel on, this thing HAD to have dropped at least 6 inches. The front end was WAY up and the back end WAY down.

The driver got out and walked back to the sales person, who absolutely assured him, "You'll have a GREAT time with this unit, and your truck won't have ANY trouble pulling it. That V8 Ford uses has PLENTY of power."

And the guy got back in the truck, and headed out of the lot... Headlights pointing at the sky, back end squatting on the ground.

When it came time to upgrade our unit, I didn't call that dealer. Yes, it MAY have been one sales person. And yes, it may have been ignorance. And yes, he may have been telling the buyer what he wanted to hear. BUT, having worked in the automotive dealership business for a number of years, I absolutely believe the tone of an organization is set by the people at the top. If they're dishonest, skirt the rules, lie or misrepresent products to buyers, the people that work for them will ALSO be like that. If they DEMAND honesty and integrity from their people, that's the kind of people they'll get.

I hope the customer never had a problem and learned his mistake and upgraded his tow vehicle, but it would have been an expensive mistake either way.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:51 PM   #27
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I was with my brother one day when we stopped at an Rv dealer in Tyler, TX. we were in his 3/4 ton Dodge diesel, long bed, extended cab, 5 speed manually tranny. As soon as we got out, the first vulture approached him and ask how he could help. He told him that he wanted to look at 5th wheel trailers in the 28 to 30' range.

First thing out of the idiots mouth was that he should look at the 40' triple axle toyhauler....since he had enough truck to pull anything they had on the lot. My brother tends to be rather blunt and told the salesman in no uncertain terns where he could stick his head and ask if he was interested in showing him what he had ask for. While the salesman went to check the stock list, we loaded up and left.

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Old 04-23-2012, 04:38 PM   #28
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Buying a 5ver and towing limits

I have just returned after a very long time monitoring this fine website. I also went to an RV show yesterday in WPLB looking at their 5vers. We own an Airstream 31 Classic 08 Limited, a fine TT but small for us now as we do spend 7 weeks on the road each summer. Its built with fine solid hickory cabinetry and furniture, stood up to 4 years running cross country and canada, no complaints. Its just a Doll House the real minimalist idea. Anyway I ran up to WPLB to look at the Redwoods and saw some Open Range 5vers. We are looking for compariable quality like the AS in a 5ver. They refer to them now as "Residential Units". They are heavier by definition than the other 5vers out there. The quandry is whether I will need to change my TV to accomplish this change over. I have a GMC 2008 crew 2500HD 6.6L duramax/allison Z71 truck that pulls the AS as if it is not there. To buy a dully I might as well haul horse trailers on my off days as this truck is my principal transport. To be honest the cabinetry in the Redwood looks better in their brochure than in real life. I found kitchen drawers that were nail gunned together rather than dovetail and the solidness was no where near what the AS has. I am coming to the conclusion that if you want real equivalency in the 5ver you will need a 450 1ton and a 5ver that I haven't found yet. Which makes? The Dyanamax Trilogy? I looked at the construction, on the redwood, of the opening mechanism of the dual pane windows, door hinges, latches, etc. It seems that quality and endurance equals weight at least for the so called soft goods, the interior. I had 5 requirements for changeover, a place to put the garbage can, a king size bed, w/d, not have to make my daughters bed on a flexsteel pullout sofa every night, and ducted ACs. I still liked the floorplan of FL model on the Redwood. Will air bags help with towing?
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