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Old 02-14-2015, 01:35 AM   #43
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It's rated to protect the manufacturer against the crazy driver and can be surpasssed by any concerned driver. It's like the option of adding a programer for more power. I call crazy driver one that floors it at every light and apply full brake power to stop every time without slowing proper driving procedures. Believe me I see lots of those on the road everyday. And I have friends that do also.

The drive train for cars an trucks can be increased by concerned owner anytime. I have done it all my life and never had a brake down ant I drive my vehicles till they no good to any one else neither. Never traded trucked because they were not capable of doing the job.
BUT if someone else would drive my equipment I would reduce the power and load to manufacture spec.
It's my opinion and my unit is registered to haul what it's needed for.

The PT30 GM chassis was way overloaded for RV use for years and no one put claims though they all had their faults.
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:36 AM   #44
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As was said earlier, any of the big 3, (Dodge, Ford, GM) will pull your 5'er BUT, "beware". The mfg.tow ratings are maybe a little over what the truck can pull "Well". Watch some of the tow comparisons on U Tube. There are a couple out there that are quite accurate. If you notice though, especially when getting near the max rating for weight, they All struggle, not with carrying the weight, but pulling it. Gearing is the key here. Especially if your "Old School" and don't like running at full throttle in the higher, steeper elevations. Wish they were all geared lower as they don't to be able to run 160 mph in top gears. lol PS, re geared my Ram and happy.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:09 PM   #45
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I ton DW Differential gear ratio

My current truck has 3.73 ring and pinion ratio...I have had three one ton trucks in the past...My 1st truck had 3.43 I felt the gear was too high and the truck struggled on steep hills and taking off from a stop...My 2nd truck I went for 4.11 it would pull anything effortlessly but got terrible fuel mileage when not towing...I have found that my current truck which is a Dodge Ram 3500 1 ton DW 6.7 turbo Cummins with 3.73 final drive ratio is perfect for me...My 5th wheel weighs 18,600 pounds...
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:46 PM   #46
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Don't know about Ford or Dodge, but the GM HD diesel trucks have only offered 3.73 for several years. I had a 2002 Chevy 2500 with 8.1 ltr gas engine and ordered it with 4.10 for extra torque. To my knowledge the 3.42 is only available in 1500 (1/2 ton) trucks.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:56 AM   #47
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Smile Detuned for driver safety

Ya, kind of have to agree that the trucks are detuned for driver safety. As little as I have actually pulled, I see it every time I'm on the road, that many of the operators don't really have the experience or foresight required to be safe. Suppose having a powerful tow vehicle amplifies the danger. That said, those of us that do have the experience and truly bought out vehicle to tow, can be easily disappointed . It's a shame to spend at least 50k and then immediately disc over that we need to add a tuner, exhaust, and such to get the power. Not to mention, risking our warranties. I know those that tow the lighter loads and don't drive in the higher elevations get by well with what is standard equipment. Those that tow heavy and in the higher elevations and steeper inclines, need more. Truly believe that all the big 3 need to offer a different package that affords those conditions. I personally, would spend a few thousand more to get the HD package if it were offered. Having a truck geared in 6th gear that can run easily over 150mph is useless. Sure think the computers could be reprogrammed to still get reasonable mileage and power with a much lower gearing. Just my thoughts
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:22 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by SDCOToyhaul View Post
Ya, kind of have to agree that the trucks are detuned for driver safety. As little as I have actually pulled, I see it every time I'm on the road, that many of the operators don't really have the experience or foresight required to be safe. Suppose having a powerful tow vehicle amplifies the danger. That said, those of us that do have the experience and truly bought out vehicle to tow, can be easily disappointed . It's a shame to spend at least 50k and then immediately disc over that we need to add a tuner, exhaust, and such to get the power. Not to mention, risking our warranties. I know those that tow the lighter loads and don't drive in the higher elevations get by well with what is standard equipment. Those that tow heavy and in the higher elevations and steeper inclines, need more. Truly believe that all the big 3 need to offer a different package that affords those conditions. I personally, would spend a few thousand more to get the HD package if it were offered. Having a truck geared in 6th gear that can run easily over 150mph is useless. Sure think the computers could be reprogrammed to still get reasonable mileage and power with a much lower gearing. Just my thoughts
Sounds like you should test drive a new RAM Dually with the Aisin trans 4:10's and the 385/865 engine. SAE J2807 rated to tow 30K.

Even my whimpy 11 HO 350/800 with 3:42's can pull the West Coast I-5 grades at or near 55 with a combined load of 29K.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:10 PM   #49
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In too deep now with gasser. Did though, watch a couple of the tow comparisons on the "Ike". There were two that seemed to be a fair comparison and truly, can't say I was impressed with any of the big 3. The gas test, were towing 10k and all struggled on the grade. I did watch another with 3500 Ram and F450. The 450 was far and away the best but what surprised me even more was when I got "tow" specs from Ram. 3500 series has a higher tow rating than ether 4500 or 5500 series. All, 3500 thru 5500, have same trans and differentials. The 4500 and 5500 only have a higher "haul" rating. Was surprised.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:07 PM   #50
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Ya, kind of have to agree that the trucks are detuned for driver safety. As little as I have actually pulled, I see it every time I'm on the road, that many of the operators don't really have the experience or foresight required to be safe. Suppose having a powerful tow vehicle amplifies the danger. That said, those of us that do have the experience and truly bought out vehicle to tow, can be easily disappointed . It's a shame to spend at least 50k and then immediately disc over that we need to add a tuner, exhaust, and such to get the power. Not to mention, risking our warranties. I know those that tow the lighter loads and don't drive in the higher elevations get by well with what is standard equipment. Those that tow heavy and in the higher elevations and steeper inclines, need more. Truly believe that all the big 3 need to offer a different package that affords those conditions. I personally, would spend a few thousand more to get the HD package if it were offered. Having a truck geared in 6th gear that can run easily over 150mph is useless. Sure think the computers could be reprogrammed to still get reasonable mileage and power with a much lower gearing. Just my thoughts
Programming the computer won't help, engine rpm dictates fuel usage and the higher the gear ratio the faster it spins and the more fuel it uses.

I don't think you'll have any trouble towing max load up a mountain with any of the big three diesels however, they all have plenty of power and proper gear ratios for the task. It's basically only Chevy half tons that are worthless for towing much beyond a small utility trailer, not 100% sure about dodge but Ford are made to work with a 3.73 most commonly.

Chevy will usually have gear ratios of 3.23 or 3.42 that are designed for max mpgs and that coupled with their short stroke is a bad combo if you want power. You can sometimes find a 3.73 but they still pale in comparison to Fords towing ability. The hd diesels are much closer in ability as that is their primary purpose and I've never heard anyone with a current gen model of any of them complain about lack of power.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:41 PM   #51
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I had a wimpy 6.5l GM diesel with 410 torque and was very comfortable towing on cruise. Bought a 6.0l diesel f250 withe 535 torque, and the cruise kicked off at every hill. GM had 4.10 axle and Ford has 3.73 axle ratio towing same trailer with same setup. The ford is 1500 lbs heavier. With programer the Ford gained comfort while towing. Just my experience
Though the present unit is 4000 lbs heavier it tows much easier then the previous one 15 years older.
Not all setup work the same.
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:37 AM   #52
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Get the trailer first. You need to know what you are going to tow. Once you know how much the trailer weighs and the kingpin or tongue weight then you are ready to buy a truck that is capable of handling the trailer. Get the truck towing specs from the truck manufacturer and read the specs to find the truck that will handle the trailer. Then sticker on the door jamb doesn't tell you anything about how much trailer you can tow.
This is the way we would approach the question. Buying too little of a truck severely limits the 5ers you can look at. So find the trailer, then get the truck to tow it. AND do not get the minimum truck, if a 1 ton single wheel is on the border line, go for the dually or get the next size up, e.g. F350 go for F450. Better to have too much truck than to be driving one that is loaded to the max and trying to cobble in additions to springs and or tires to make it safer.
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Old 02-20-2015, 02:20 AM   #53
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I had a wimpy 6.5l GM diesel with 410 torque and was very comfortable towing on cruise. Bought a 6.0l diesel f250 withe 535 torque, and the cruise kicked off at every hill. GM had 4.10 axle and Ford has 3.73 axle ratio towing same trailer with same setup. The ford is 1500 lbs heavier. With programer the Ford gained comfort while towing. Just my experience
Though the present unit is 4000 lbs heavier it tows much easier then the previous one 15 years older.
Not all setup work the same.
The newer current generation diesels have considerably more hp and torque than those a few years ago, heck even current gen gassers make more hp than older diesels but not quite as much torque, which is where gear ratio can help make up the difference.
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:30 AM   #54
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Convinced her for dedicated dually.

We were going to buy either an F250 or an HD2500 that she would drive as a daily driver, and it would tow our new 5th wheel (16,000 lb Cedar Creek) but I think she's agreed to buy a dedicated dually that will only be used for towing. Now to find out what's out there a couple of years old, and the only remaining issue is the proper rear end. We're on the east coast and she wants to tow this monster as far as Alaska......so...the hunt begins. Suggestions?
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:42 AM   #55
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Smile Towing

Yes, wish I would have known what I know today. Not being computer savvy as many are and not knowing of videos showing comparison tows, it's easy to make a costly mistake. There is such a diverse difference between the different models not to mention the different brands. Also appears, and I am surprised, how many buy the 2500 series just mainly for "butt haulers". lol Used to be, they were only purchased to haul and tow. Still, think that with the proper gearing and a few different computer programs available, a owner could get the best of both worlds. I know they use the excuse of emissions and mileage for what is designed and sold, but anything 2500 and up don't even estimate mileage. Know if I could design a computer, could do better on mileage and performance. Also, what was said about rpms and fuel mileage is not altogether true. By gearing down, increased my fuel economy by well over 2 mpg towing, same or better in town(15 to 16+) and empty in the higher mountain ranges, about the same, 15 to 16+. As for rpm, now tow "easier" at about 1000 to 1500 less rpms. Also, not the constant down and up shifts that I had before. Don't need more engine power but better control of the power that it has. Just my thoughts. PS. wish I could mate Aisin trans with the 6.4 Hemi. lol
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:53 AM   #56
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Having gone thru multiple trailer/truck combos before getting the class A I learned a couple things. First thing is buy once/cry once. Don't "save" money settling for something that will just barely meet the need. I have had Dodge 3500 dually and replaced that with with a Ford F450 King Ranch. The Dodge was a great truck but I needed more when towing thru the mountains in NC. The F450 was amazing. Horrible fuel mileage but would tow up any hill (4.88 rear end). The other benefit of the F450 was the front end geometry. The way the suspension is set up the wheel cut was very sharp and it maneuvered like a much smaller truck. I made the mistake of selling that truck when I sold the 5th wheel. I then made another mistake of purchasing an F350 longbed to replace it instead of another F450. It was like driving a barge compared to the F450. I have since got rid of the F350.

If you are looking at needing a hauler for a heavy 5th wheel find a couple year old F450. It is only avail as a dually but it drives like a much smaller truck and you will never find yourself wishing you had bought more.
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