Why do fifth-wheels have so many more slide-outs? Construction/design factors?

[PaulAllen]

Why do fifth-wheels have so many more slide-outs? Construction/design factors? What is the basis for the various differences in such layout and structural features.

The on-the-road advantage of a fifth-wheel is obvious physics. But I'm not as clear on why travel-trailers so rarely have the many slide-out features of fifth-wheels.

On the face of it all, one might expect a travel-trailer to have the most headroom--- and have it everywhere.

I do understand that a "boxy" travel trailer has the potential of falling under state-by-state definitions of a traditional "mobile home" and thereby losing various RV property tax advantages etc. But I assume most of the travel trailer issues arise from the highway physics and that ends up dictating most of the TT vs. 5Wh differences. (???)

[Infinityrver]

First and for most, the tow vehicle (truck) can handle more weight over the axle than on the outer rear of the bumper.

Therefore, the fifth wheel can have more GVWR than a travel trailer. Thus, adding more slides, larger wastewater capacities, & more storage area. Just to name a few.

[jamvir]

Originally Posted by Infinityrver

First and for most, the tow vehicle (truck) can handle more weight over the axle than on the outer rear of the bumper.

Therefore, the fifth wheel can have more GVWR than a travel trailer. Thus, adding more slides, larger wastewater capacities, & more storage area. Just to name a few.

My thoughts exactly. I can't think of any other reason, other than perhaps keeping the cost lower.

Jim

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by PaulAllen

I do understand that a "boxy" travel trailer has the potential of falling under state-by-state definitions of a traditional "mobile home" and thereby losing various RV property tax advantages etc.

I believe HUD sets the breakpoint between an RV and a mobile home at 400 square feet of floorspace. In addition, a mobile home will not have the fresh and waste water tanks and other support systems to allow mobility that a 5th wheel or travel trailer does.

Rusty

[NathanJ]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

I believe HUD sets the breakpoint between an RV and a mobile home at 400 square feet of floorspace. In addition, a mobile home will not have the fresh and waste water tanks and other support systems to allow mobility that a 5th wheel or travel trailer does.

Yes, I've been surprised at how many people reacted to my step-father's forum questions by telling him it made no sense for him to buy a fifth-wheel for his rural, permanent site when it should be obvious that sometimes an RV is the only legal, zoning-compliant solution. Most states won't even allow a traditional outhouse anymore, regardless of location.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by NathanJ

...by telling him it made no sense for him to buy a fifth-wheel for his rural, permanent site when it should be obvious that sometimes an RV is the only legal, zoning-compliant solution....

With all respect, it wasn't obvious until he told us that his choice of a 5th wheel was mandated by zoning restrictions. Barring such restrictions, there are other options that could provide more "bang for the buck".

Rusty

[NathanJ]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

With all respect, it wasn't obvious until he told us that his choice of a 5th wheel was mandated by zoning restrictions. Barring such restrictions, there are other options that could provide more "bang for the buck".

Rusty

True indeed. But in much of the U.S. even rural sites for anything but a conventional stick-built home are disallowed. I had thought that Texas was be among the easiest to put a large range of resident-types on unincorporated rural properties---but, sadly, many of us have discovered much to the contrary.

It is quite sad that a property owner nowadays can find onerous restrictions even in very remote locations. (And in so many agricultural areas, even adding a stick-built home for children/grandchildren is often disallowed because, for example, a 120 acres farm might be limited in perpetuity by the county to a single 2-acre "division" of the property.)

A lot of jurisdictions now dislike the idea of any kind of permanent housing because it complicates future decisions for that zoning unit (e.g.., eminent domain costs.) So some will grudgingly allow an RV because it can be driven away. But even then, for example, many will set various levels of the flood plain rules under which every RV must be capable of being towed away on short-notice of likely flood conditions. FEMA et al are increasingly concerned that manufactured housing easily leaves its foundation and either clogs or wipes out a low bridge further downstream.

So just as not many auto shoppers will be likely to consider motorcycle options when asking about installing a cruise-control, most rural sites in the U.S. have far fewer housing alternatives than we might all wish. A lot of basic freedoms have been lost to bureaucracy and micro-management by not only cities, villages, and neighborhood covenants but county commissioners and state legislatures harassed by eco-warriers, greens, and sustainability advocates. (Ironically, the actual results of such lobbying often confirms and worsens the status quo in terms of sustainable/economical lifestyles.)

Thank you all for your feedback and answers!

[NathanJ]

FUNNY STORY: There's a letter posted online illustrating the craziness of rural over-regulation and "environmental advocacy" in rural areas. It is an official "letter of judicial determination" by a Texas judge addressed to the filer of a complaint to the county commissioners that a farmer was leasing his woodlands to weekend-only hunters [i.e., no cabins, camping privileges, or other occupancy rights were included] "without constructing appropriate restroom facilities which would obviously be necessary for all-day visitors to the property" and that this "threatened the local ecosystem and posed a sanitation and public health risk to the community." The judge's tongue-in-cheek but very official sounding letter of determination informed the complainant that there had also been reports of woodland animals defecating in that same woodland property without any sewage treatment provisions being made by the property owner nor even the prominent posting of signs prohibiting such reckless abuse by a great many four-legged and winged visitors to the property in question.

Because of State of Texas law, the judge and county officials had to go through the motions of the costly process in order to avoid a nuisance lawsuit (and the media-attention seeking antics of the environmentalists in this case) but if Texas hasn't gotten this restricted, it is easy to imagine how much worse it is in other states where I've tried to subdivide or improve rural properties.

Of course, for many of us, it also comes down to property tax issues. The moment a structure is "fixed" and "permanent", it becomes subject to hefty taxes, brings zoning and code implications, and can create a long chain of undesirable and expensive complications. I have found this to be the case with virtually EVERY rural site I've either owned or investigated in six states. So I think we all like to think in terms of (and long for) a status quo which no longer exists.....or at least I do.

[richardcoxid]

Because of the cantilever of the front o’hang the frame of a 5W has to be much stronger to begin with than the frame of a TT. Then remember, when you add a slide out you are eliminating the structural strength of the wall where the “hole” is.

[Muddypaws]

My observation is that there are more 'high end' fifth wheels than TTs.

Fivers seem to be the home of choice for full timers. Walk around any RV park that has permanent residents and you'll probably see the same pattern.

[NancyW]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

My observation is that there are more 'high end' fifth wheels than TTs.

Fivers seem to be the home of choice for full timers. Walk around any RV park that has permanent residents and you'll probably see the same pattern.

I noticed likewise. Yet I've had a several people on Internet forums tell me that I should be looking at travel-trailers as well as fifth-wheels. Yet, because I want lots of square footage, storage, and slide-outs, I've yet to see a TT that met my needs. My RV will probably stay on a single rural site long-term and not spend much time on the highway so that may give me more flexibility about weight and towing considerations but I just don't see any viable alternative from a fifth-wheel.

[Muddypaws]

Have you looked at Park Models? They are towable, but just barely. To me they seem more like a small mobile home than a travel trailer. We've seen some really nice ones. Even some with second story lofts!