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Old 03-15-2018, 04:27 AM   #71
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Sorry, just making a comment about the frontal area as it applies to anyone towing on the highway at 65 - 70mph.

For me, my camping will be local at the state parks. I can drive across Florida on secondary roads and never hit 60 mph.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:40 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 96 Softail View Post
If "frontal area" is so much a concern, why mess with a 1/2 ton? Just go 3/4 ton diesel and be done with it.
I think a lot of buyers looking at trucks that have never owned a full size truck think 3/4 ton -1 ton are some sort of specialty truck. The F150 fits the groccery getter-soccer mom-Home Depot on the weekend crowd. I think they look at 3/4 tons as a work truck, something that contractors would buy.
Guessing they also think they're too big to use as a daily driver even though dimensional they're close.
Lots of misconceptions. Look around at loaded up 1/2 tons and loaded up 3/4 tons with gas engines and the price is almost the same.
And MFG's don't help when they throw out 12,000 tow ratings making customers think they can tow anything.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:54 AM   #73
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I have to agree. It really does not help saying a 1/2 ton truck can tow 11,300 lbs. A 35' TT will only weigh 10,000lb and people wounder why we say you really can not tow that trailer with that truck.

One thing I do not like about my dually diesel is all the weight (5,000 lbs) on the front two tires. A gasoline engine would reduce that weight.

Again, I will look at gasoline powered F-250 and Chevy/Ram 2500's.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:59 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Cumminsfan View Post
I think a lot of buyers looking at trucks that have never owned a full size truck think 3/4 ton -1 ton are some sort of specialty truck. The F150 fits the groccery getter-soccer mom-Home Depot on the weekend crowd. I think they look at 3/4 tons as a work truck, something that contractors would buy.
Guessing they also think they're too big to use as a daily driver even though dimensional they're close.
Lots of misconceptions. Look around at loaded up 1/2 tons and loaded up 3/4 tons with gas engines and the price is almost the same.
And MFG's don't help when they throw out 12,000 tow ratings making customers think they can tow anything.
You can buy a single axle conversion OTR truck that has a smaller foot print than many pickups, especially like my crew cab, 8' bed F-150. The OTR truck would also most like have a way better turning radius than a pickup. But the height makes people think they are huge and they associate them with pulling 45' trailers. A company in Calgary, AB does a nice conversion and you can buy one for the price of a loaded new diesel pickup. If we ever upgraded from our TT to a large 5th wheel toy hauler, this is the route we would go.

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Old 03-15-2018, 01:27 PM   #75
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I thought those big trucks cost 150k plus. I read that they turn sharper than a pick up truck.
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:35 PM   #76
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E bay auction has a ton of used tractors for sale on there.....doesn't cost to look...
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:35 PM   #77
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Google used trucks.....
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Old 03-15-2018, 02:16 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Cumminsfan View Post
I think a lot of buyers looking at trucks that have never owned a full size truck think 3/4 ton -1 ton are some sort of specialty truck. The F150 fits the groccery getter-soccer mom-Home Depot on the weekend crowd. I think they look at 3/4 tons as a work truck, something that contractors would buy.
Guessing they also think they're too big to use as a daily driver even though dimensional they're close.
Lots of misconceptions. Look around at loaded up 1/2 tons and loaded up 3/4 tons with gas engines and the price is almost the same.
And MFG's don't help when they throw out 12,000 tow ratings making customers think they can tow anything.
If you cost the two out on the mfr. build page the 3/4 ton might be only a cpl. thousand more. I have run those numbers thinking I would trade my 2017 1500 sierra for a 2500 with the same options but you cant really buy one from a dealer for just a cpl. thousand more because they offer few incentives on the 2500's. where I got 12000 off my new 1500 sierra you would be lucky to get 5000 off a 2-3000 more expensive 2500.
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Old 03-15-2018, 02:56 PM   #79
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Based on my experience with the GM 1/2 tons since they came out with the AFM cylinder shut down nonsense, I will never buy another. It was my one foray into 1/2 ton territory in 2013 after several years owning 3/4 tons (last 1/2 ton I had was a 1966 Chevy C10) and now I am solidly back in 3/4 ton territory where they don't do goofy stuff like that. Just a quick search thru GM specific forums for "AFM" will bring days of reading, and the major issues seem to be collapsed lifters, high oil consumption, etc.

Just from going over those several GM forums, my factory reman 12.7L Detroit 60 with over 800,000 miles on the reman uses less oil than most of the 5.3's in GM pickups it seems. The forums are ablaze with oil consumption of 1 qt in a few thousand miles or less. My Detroit that's 800,000 miles into its second life eats about 1 qt in 11,000 miles. My 2500 with the L96 6.0L in it barely uses about 1/4 qt in 6000 miles.

That does leave the 6.2, but it is a premium fuel engine. Power, sure, but is it really worth it? One can get by occasionally on mid grade, but it really wants premium, especially for any kind work beyond going to work or getting groceries. I suppose it might be worth it if one has bottomless pockets. I sure am not going to pay for premium fuel or buy any vehicle that calls for it. And that 6.2L has a premium price tag to go along with needing premium fuel.

That is why I like my 6.0L in my 2500. No more expensive than the majority of 1/2 tons and considerably cheaper than the 6.2 varieties, and has the capability that a 1/2 ton, even a 6.2L, can only dream of. And unlike the 6.2, I can use any fuel in it except diesel. Ethanol free, E10, E15, E20, E30, E50, on up to E85, which I currently am using because it is so darn cheap in my area and gives me the best bang for my buck. And the L96 has 90% of it's torque available at 2000 RPM. Not bad for a naturally aspirated V8 gasser. I suppose that one could argue that a 3/4 ton doesn't make a good daily driver, but I don't use pickups to go to the movies or to work. That is what cars are for, and I would much rather ride in my Cadillac CTS when going out to eat than some pickup. I drive trucks all week, the last thing I want to do is drive one when I am on my own time, except to tow for recreation, work around home, etc.

Now, we would have to back up to the 2015 model year, but my 2500 Double Cab, Z71 package, 6.5' box, 6.0L with 4.10 diffs, LT, tow package with integrated trailer brake controller, snow plow prep package, 5th wheel / gooseneck prep package, etc, I took off the lot brand new after the dealer thru in a line-x bed liner, Auto Armor paint protection package, and Auto Armor rust prevention package for the whopping sum of $38K. The window sticker was $48K. Will tow 13,500 lb with a payload of 2400 lb even after there is two people in it, full of fuel, and a couple hundred lb of tools in the bed. One would be hard pressed to find a equivalently loaded up 1/2 ton that they could drive off for less than that. On the forums, I have seen many people getting between $9K and $11K off of the sticker for 2500's.

And no, it was not during one of those "chevy truck month" sales things either. I just wanted one, did some web searching, found the one I wanted at a dealer about 60 miles from me, emailed for a quote, we agreed and I bought it after he thru in the extras.
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:35 PM   #80
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If you cost the two out on the mfr. build page the 3/4 ton might be only a cpl. thousand more. I have run those numbers thinking I would trade my 2017 1500 sierra for a 2500 with the same options but you cant really buy one from a dealer for just a cpl. thousand more because they offer few incentives on the 2500's. where I got 12000 off my new 1500 sierra you would be lucky to get 5000 off a 2-3000 more expensive 2500.
I found the opposite to be true. I got my truck for the same price as the half tons were going for because the half tons were in much higher demand. For a comparably equipped.
It's important to note when you're talking how much off you're getting to state whether it is off MSRP or Invoice. Nobody should pay MSRP and getting invoice is easy.
My truck was 6% under invoice and then $3500 in rebates off of that. So I guess that would put it at about $6500 or so under invoice. With no haggling either. MSRP was about $13k more than I paid(I would need to double check the sticker).
But this would vary by area and demand.
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:42 PM   #81
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If you cost the two out on the mfr. build page the 3/4 ton might be only a cpl. thousand more. I have run those numbers thinking I would trade my 2017 1500 sierra for a 2500 with the same options but you cant really buy one from a dealer for just a cpl. thousand more because they offer few incentives on the 2500's. where I got 12000 off my new 1500 sierra you would be lucky to get 5000 off a 2-3000 more expensive 2500.
Thats very true. I priced out an F150 XL with the Heavy Duty payload package, all the chrome stuff and interior stuff you can get on a XL. Scab, 4x4 8' box 3.5 EB in 2012. I ended up getting a 12 Ram 2500 CC LB 4x4 Cummins for $10K off MSRP. Which ended up being a couple grand more than the F150 that had hardly any incentives cause I'd have to order it.
I've seen F250-350's going for over $10K off MSRP around Sept-Oct or so. It goes both ways I guess.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:13 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Cowpie1 View Post
Based on my experience with the GM 1/2 tons since they came out with the AFM cylinder shut down nonsense, I will never buy another. It was my one foray into 1/2 ton territory in 2013 after several years owning 3/4 tons (last 1/2 ton I had was a 1966 Chevy C10) and now I am solidly back in 3/4 ton territory where they don't do goofy stuff like that. Just a quick search thru GM specific forums for "AFM" will bring days of reading, and the major issues seem to be collapsed lifters, high oil consumption, etc.

Just from going over those several GM forums, my factory reman 12.7L Detroit 60 with over 800,000 miles on the reman uses less oil than most of the 5.3's in GM pickups it seems. The forums are ablaze with oil consumption of 1 qt in a few thousand miles or less. My Detroit that's 800,000 miles into its second life eats about 1 qt in 11,000 miles. My 2500 with the L96 6.0L in it barely uses about 1/4 qt in 6000 miles.

That does leave the 6.2, but it is a premium fuel engine. Power, sure, but is it really worth it? One can get by occasionally on mid grade, but it really wants premium, especially for any kind work beyond going to work or getting groceries. I suppose it might be worth it if one has bottomless pockets. I sure am not going to pay for premium fuel or buy any vehicle that calls for it. And that 6.2L has a premium price tag to go along with needing premium fuel.

That is why I like my 6.0L in my 2500. No more expensive than the majority of 1/2 tons and considerably cheaper than the 6.2 varieties, and has the capability that a 1/2 ton, even a 6.2L, can only dream of. And unlike the 6.2, I can use any fuel in it except diesel. Ethanol free, E10, E15, E20, E30, E50, on up to E85, which I currently am using because it is so darn cheap in my area and gives me the best bang for my buck. And the L96 has 90% of it's torque available at 2000 RPM. Not bad for a naturally aspirated V8 gasser. I suppose that one could argue that a 3/4 ton doesn't make a good daily driver, but I don't use pickups to go to the movies or to work. That is what cars are for, and I would much rather ride in my Cadillac CTS when going out to eat than some pickup. I drive trucks all week, the last thing I want to do is drive one when I am on my own time, except to tow for recreation, work around home, etc.

Now, we would have to back up to the 2015 model year, but my 2500 Double Cab, Z71 package, 6.5' box, 6.0L with 4.10 diffs, LT, tow package with integrated trailer brake controller, snow plow prep package, 5th wheel / gooseneck prep package, etc, I took off the lot brand new after the dealer thru in a line-x bed liner, Auto Armor paint protection package, and Auto Armor rust prevention package for the whopping sum of $38K. The window sticker was $48K. Will tow 13,500 lb with a payload of 2400 lb even after there is two people in it, full of fuel, and a couple hundred lb of tools in the bed. One would be hard pressed to find a equivalently loaded up 1/2 ton that they could drive off for less than that. On the forums, I have seen many people getting between $9K and $11K off of the sticker for 2500's.

And no, it was not during one of those "chevy truck month" sales things either. I just wanted one, did some web searching, found the one I wanted at a dealer about 60 miles from me, emailed for a quote, we agreed and I bought it after he thru in the extras.
It's not as big a problem as you present. Sure a few have had lifter problems early on, but the vast majority have had none. Plus you can get a Range device that locks out the AFM. My 2014 5.3 runs great and burns zero oil.
The 6.0 is probably a better suited engine for you uses.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:22 AM   #83
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For what it is worth, I picked up the Consumer Reports Auto Issue. The F-150 gets an overall score of 72. The Ram 69 and the Chevy 52.

The bigger trucks all score in the low 50's as they ride rough and burn alot of fuel.

The F-150 with the Eco-boost 2.7 litre engine I have read, is really a nice truck/engine combination. Somehow Ford is getting a lot of power out of that engine. Fast Lane Trucks showed it towing 7,600lbs up the Ike Gauntlet and saying it had a lot of extra power.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:13 PM   #84
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The bigger trucks all score in the low 50's as they ride rough
One of the things that made vehicles like the 1979 Ford Bronco such a desired item back when I had one. Good 'ol solid front axle with quad shocks, not this cushiony, wimpy stuff like it being put out now. That Bronco rode like a lumber wagon and I really liked the vehicle. 351M and a 4 speed manual. it just had a tough time weathering several years of the Alaskan interior it had to go thru. If vehicles could talk, it probably would have cursed me out for taking it there in '82.
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