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Old 11-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #15
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All of these new trucks are pretty fabulous, that's for sure. My intro to small trucks was back in the 60's, operating 4x4 wild land firetrucks. From 3/4 to 2 and half ton rigs as my career progressed. No interest anymore in off-roading, so merely looking for a solid 4x2 half ton rig to pull a lighter weight trailer.

Still harbor some bad feelings regarding some Dodge products from back in the day, and swore that I'd never buy one. Too bad, because I really do like that Hemi! My older brother was a "Dodge Boy" for nearly 5 decades, but eventually got tired of truck failures (other than the Cummins TD's that are bulletproof) and he switched to DuraMax/Allison equipped trucks.

Still a Ford fan here, but was very impressed by the new GM trucks...just wish I had a Money Tree! LOL

Cheers!
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:48 AM   #16
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Just exactly how important is 0.5 seconds, or 1.0 seconds? Acceleration tests to me have been meaningless since high school. How they perform when towing is what is now important to me.

Joe
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:33 AM   #17
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I had a GMC 1500 with the 5.3 and tried pulling a 27' Komfort travel trailer.

After one trip in the Sierra mountains I wound up buying a GMC 2500 with the 8.1.

You better go hook up the trailer to the truck and test it as others have suggested.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:19 AM   #18
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You are somewhat correct that 0 - 60 times are meaningless. But, and this is a big but, here that are very meaningful as they represent the 'power' of the trucks.

Example - a Indy car or Nascar generate 700 - 800 HP, yet their 0 - 60 times are not fast. And with 700 HP they do not make a good TV.

0 - 60 times do tell you a lot about the trucks ability to tow if you also look at torque.

Conversely a tractor has a bunch of torque but not much HP. A tractor can tow any trailer but not at highway speeds.

So in this case the fastest truck can also reach highway speeds the fastest when towing.

Just saying.
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #19
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"So in this case the fastest truck can also reach highway speeds the fastest when towing."

This statement is not necessarily true unless you try each one with the same load. Differential and transmission gears have a lot to do with it.

Joe

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Old 11-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #20
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I quit drag racing about 40 years ago...LOL

To me the question about which truck is quicker to 60mph by a few seconds is a bit irrelevant. The major manufacturers are so close in engine output and performance that my bottom line for the decision of which to buy will still be the amount....on the bottom line!

Besides, when I want to go fast, I can always crank up my BMW R1100S and go for a ride.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 11-17-2013, 06:48 PM   #21
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I think the most important factor is how fast you can stop in an emergency situation and how the combination handles during a panic stop.

The 2500 will win that discussion every time.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
You are somewhat correct that 0 - 60 times are meaningless. But, and this is a big but, here that are very meaningful as they represent the 'power' of the trucks.

Example - a Indy car or Nascar generate 700 - 800 HP, yet their 0 - 60 times are not fast. And with 700 HP they do not make a good TV.

0 - 60 times do tell you a lot about the trucks ability to tow if you also look at torque.

Conversely a tractor has a bunch of torque but not much HP. A tractor can tow any trailer but not at highway speeds.

So in this case the fastest truck can also reach highway speeds the fastest when towing.

Just saying.
That's not accurate at all. Otherwise large semi-trucks would be designed to make gobs of horsepower, they are not.

Horsepower is a calculation of torque and engine speed((Torque*RPM)/ 5252. Keyword there being engine speed. Higher horsepower can be made by having more torque up at higher rpm. But that's actually worse for towing, more torque at lower RPM is desired for holding gears better and getting/keeping the load moving.

Horsepower is a good indicator of acceleration, generally more horsepower to weight ratio will mean faster acceleration. However, you also have to account for lag time required to get into the power band. The problem when towing is having the proper low end gearing to get the engine into higher RPM's to get into your torque band quicker and keep it there. The reason why diesels are preferred for towing, but make little horsepower is that full torque is generally reach by 1600rpm. Once you get moving, you'll usually be crusing around that speed anyways, so torque is always there when you need it, after maybe a half second turbo lag.

So 0-60 time may be nice off the line, but low end torque really helps when you're already moving and need to pass someone as well as other situations where you'll need to accelerate, like turning onto an on-ramp then flooring it. So comparing 0-60 times is moot because you won't most likely be at a dead stop and get onto an on-ramp, unless you miss the merge and have to stop.

Having more gears also helps because with less gears, you'll have to downshift further than you need, and have to wait for that lag to get into your torque and power band. With 4 speed transmission, this could literally be an extra like few seconds of extra time. 0-60 times do not reveal this because you only use the first 2-3 gears in this type of test.

A tractor could tow at highway speeds if it had higher gearing and a road worthy suspension/tires. The reason manufacturers don't put higher gearing in is because the gears are designed to run out just as the tractor gets very unstable to drive. Those large tires are not designed to go far beyond 25mph. In fact, many tractor engines are used in semi-trucks, those 10L and 13L engines are used in road trucks, they just have a different transmission.

So there are pros and cons to engine designs. Only the Ford ecoboost seems to have the best of both worlds, low end torque(420ft-lbs at 2300rpm) and high end horsepower. However, it doesn't get the best fuel economy while towing, so there is literally no perfect holy grail engine yet.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:21 AM   #23
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To Miller303KDS, the OP,

Your thread got a bit out of hand and off-topic.

I have no experience with that truck or that load, but I think it will have enough power. The question is how it will handle the load and if there will be any handling issues. Perhaps more knowledgeable folks can comment.

If you get proper stabilization devices, you "might" get along nicely, as long as you pay attention to your load limits and avoid long mountain pulls.

I wish you and your young family the happiest of times out camping.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #24
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I will generally tow short runs, under 100 miles and this is flat land up here. My 09 Ram pulled it nice, plenty of hp but that rear coil suspension was its weakness. I have a Blue Ox WD hitch which is pretty nice. I am sure a 3/4 ton truck would be ideal, but the truck will also be my DD. I have a 50 mile round trip commute for work so mpg plays a factor in my choice of trucks. Miles logged with the trailer will probably be under 1500 per year. Everyone's input is well respected and will taken into consideration. Thanks to all.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:19 AM   #25
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I will generally tow short runs, under 100 miles and this is flat land up here. My 09 Ram pulled it nice, plenty of hp but that rear coil suspension was its weakness. I have a Blue Ox WD hitch which is pretty nice. I am sure a 3/4 ton truck would be ideal, but the truck will also be my DD. I have a 50 mile round trip commute for work so mpg plays a factor in my choice of trucks. Miles logged with the trailer will probably be under 1500 per year. Everyone's input is well respected and will taken into consideration. Thanks to all.
Like you, I would somewhat prefer a 3/4 ton...but for a variety of reasons have decided to go for a half ton and a smaller TT.

Sure would like to hear your impressions of the new truck once you have a bit of time with it.

Cheers!
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:55 AM   #26
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For what it is worth, i was pulling my 6500lb, 31ft travel trailer with an 04 chevy half ton, 5.3/3.73... Never felt comfortable or in control... At 55mph, it was a white knuckle drive. Recently traded the chevy off for an 05 dodge 2500, cummins/ 3.73. Towing is incredibly more comfortable. Feels much more stable and in control, especially when braking, and taking off. Do what you wish, but i will never again try to tow with "just enough" truck.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller303KDS View Post
I will generally tow short runs, under 100 miles and this is flat land up here. My 09 Ram pulled it nice, plenty of hp but that rear coil suspension was its weakness. I have a Blue Ox WD hitch which is pretty nice. I am sure a 3/4 ton truck would be ideal, but the truck will also be my DD. I have a 50 mile round trip commute for work so mpg plays a factor in my choice of trucks. Miles logged with the trailer will probably be under 1500 per year. Everyone's input is well respected and will taken into consideration. Thanks to all.
Seems to me you should be okay on short hauls in flat country. When the time comes for more serious towing, you will be very pleased with a bigger truck.

In the mean time, I'm darn sure your kids will enjoy camping for a long time with the setup you have.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #28
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For what it is worth, i was pulling my 6500lb, 31ft travel trailer with an 04 chevy half ton, 5.3/3.73... Never felt comfortable or in control... At 55mph, it was a white knuckle drive. Recently traded the chevy off for an 05 dodge 2500, cummins/ 3.73. Towing is incredibly more comfortable. Feels much more stable and in control, especially when braking, and taking off. Do what you wish, but i will never again try to tow with "just enough" truck.
Thanks for the input! We're thinking a trailer about that same weight, but nothing over 24 feet in length. Did that 04 Chevy have a max tow package?

Cheers! Bill
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