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Old 10-06-2015, 06:37 PM   #1
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2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 w/ Outdoor RV Creek Side 22RB

Ok, I just purchased a brand new 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Loredo 4x4 with the Trailer Tow package. All the stats are outlined below. so is the travel trailer I planned to buy. Would this combination work? How fast do you think I can take a 7% grade up a mountain? 55mph?
yes, I do plan to buy a wght distribution hitch. Maybe Andersons.
I weight 235lbs
One other passenger from 125lb to 200 lbs depending who is coming with.
How much payload weight would be left over after the Wght Dist hitch, full propane tank and a battery? (not sure where trailer battery is)

2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
3.6-Liter Pentastar V6 Engine
290 horsepower
260 lb-ft of torque
Max payload: 1320 pounds, 4WD
Max towing: 6,500 pounds
Base Curb WT# 4,677 lb
(GVWR) 6,500

Outdoor RV Creek Side 22RB
Full Feature Dry Weight - Lbs.4700
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.)550
Exterior Length (approx. w / hitch)26'11"
Maximum Trailer Weight - Lbs.6400
Net Carrying Capacity: 1700

Trailer Tow Group IV
Heavy Duty Engine Cooling
180 Amp Alternator
Class IV Receiver Hitch
7 and 4 Pin Wiring Harness
Rear Load Leveling Suspension
3.45 Rear Axle
•Full Size Spare Tire
•Steel Spare Wheel
Trailer Sway Damping
Trailer Sway Control1 uses the Electronic Stability Control2 sensors to adjust the throttle and apply brake pressure to keep the trailer and vehicle under control.
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:41 PM   #2
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I towed a 4,400lb dry trailer with a Honda Ridgeline with a max tow rating of 5,000lb. 250 ft lbs of torque and 250 HP.

I towed 600 miles before I bought a F-150. The Ridgeline was good up to 55 mph. But faster than that the lack of areodynamics of my TT was was evident. It was simply too much trailer for the Ridgeline. The V8 powered F-150 was good with this trailer with 100 more ft lbs and 100 more HP (approx on both). @

You may have better luck than I did if you can get your sway control and WDH dialed in. But semi-trucks zooming by will affect your rig.

Again you have a SUV with a V6 non-turbo engine. It will struggle going up hill.
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:37 PM   #3
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Tuffr2 thank you for the response. I see what your saying. I do doubt the best performance from this combination but I do see that this Jeep is a little more capable. How much more, not sure. But I figure if I could get some collaboration of numbers, that would help.

What is the break down of Tow Payload? What should be added and how much?

60lbs - Anderson Wght Distrubution
50lbs - Full propene tank
0? lbs - battery?
400lbs - driver and passenger
0? lbs - full spare tire
0? lbs - something else?

Im not as worried at max Tow hauling. I want my total trailer tow load to be no more than 5500lbs. That it shy of 1000lbs of the Jeeps max 6500 lbs tow rating.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinlp38 View Post

2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
...Max payload: 1320 pounds,
Max towing: 6,500 pounds
(GVWR) 6,500
The max towing (rating) is not your limiter. It tells you only how much you can pull without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without holding up traffic on hills and mountain passes.

Your limiter is the GVWR (and resulting max payload rating). That tells you how much weight you can haul on the four Jeep tires without being overloaded.

My payload rating is 1,366 pounds, but I'm overloaded over the GVWR of my tow vehicle with my TT that weighs only 4,870 pounds when on the road.


Estimating weights can get you in trouble. You need to know the actual weight of your SUV so you will know how much hitch weight (tongue weight for a TT) you can haul without being overloaded. So load the Jeep with everything and everybody that will be in it when towing (including the WD hitch). Go to a truck stop that has a CAT scale and fill up with gas. Then weigh the wet and loaded Jeep.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded Jeep from the GVWR of the Jeep to get the max tongue weight you can tow without being overloaded. Divide that max tongue weight by 12.5% and the answer is the max GVWR of any TT you want to consider. I suspect the max GVWR of any TT you want will have to be a lot less than 6,400 pounds if you don't want to be overloaded when on an RV trip.

Quote:
Outdoor RV Creek Side 22RB
Maximum Trailer Weight - Lbs.6400
Nice little TT, but you'll have to constantly be weight conscious. Travel with empty holding tanks. Paper plates and plastic picknic supplies instead of metal flatwear and glass dishes. Cheap light-weight aluminum pots and pans instead of the good cookwear. Pump the rear tires up to the max on the sidewall (44 PSI?). And weigh the rig on a CAT scale often to be sure you're not overloaded.

Quote:
Trailer Tow Group IV
...
Trailer Sway Damping
Trailer Sway Control1 uses the Electronic Stability Control2 sensors to adjust
Yes, I have that too, and it helps a bit, but you still need an excellent anti-sway WD hitch to prevent the tail from wagging the dog.

Quote:
Im not as worried at max Tow hauling. I want my total trailer tow load to be no more than 5500lbs. That it shy of 1000lbs of the Jeeps max 6500 lbs tow rating.
5,500 pounds of trailer means about 687 pounds of tongue weight on an average TT that has 12.5% tongue weight, plus another 75 pounds for a good WD hitch. If you have over 700 pounds of payload capacity to haul that much hitch weight, then good for you. And if your TT has more than average wet and loaded tongue weight percentage, then you could easily have about 900 pounds of tongue weight including the weight of the WD hitch.


The Anderson hitch is a decent hitch with so-so sway control, but for just a bit more money you can get a WD hitch that has more sway control. Consider a Reese Strait-Line trunnion bar hitch, or an Equal-Izer. Or since you will be right on the max for hitch weight, maybe even invest in the top-of-the-line ProPride that guarantees no sway, so you won't have to worry about the tail wagging the dog. Yes, I have a ProPride 3P for towing my small TT. If you have ever experienced uncontrollable trailer sway, then you'll pay a lot extra to be sure it never happens again.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:43 AM   #5
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OK, so your payload starts at 1320
-235 for you = 1085
-100 for WDH = 985
-768 for max tongue weight (12% of 6400) = 217 left

So basically your skinny pal can come along, if your jeep is spotless inside and no aftermarket parts have been put on but the heavier one will just need to run beside the truck until you get to the park! haha

So with the trailer loaded to capacity and you and the WDH in the vehicle you have 217 pounds left for EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY ELSE that needs to go in the tow vehicle (people, gear, stuff, after market parts).

That's cutting it pretty close, but is still within specs depending on anything you've added to the jeep or carry inside it.

You have 1700 pounds of cargo capacity in the trailer, which you may not need all of. Hopefully you won't.

If you can limit your Cargo in the TT to 1000 pounds then you'll have:

1320
-235 for you = 1085
-100 for WDH = 985
-684 for tongue weight (12% of 5700) = 301 payload left

Yay, your other friend doesn't have to run beside the jeep!

You'll be safest if you load the TT well, with heavy items near the axles to limit the impact on the tongue weight, however you NEED 10-15% of the total wet weight on the tongue for safe towing and sway control. You can't just load everything in the rear to lighten up the tongue. You'll have sway problems if you do.

I would definitely load up for camping and hit a CAT scale so you can make adjustments to how you load the TT to keep both your payload under the limit and your tongue weight near 12% of the total TT weight.

I would certainly recommend a quality WDH, not the friction bar type. The TT will almost certainly outweigh the jeep, so tail wagging the dog is a definite possibility, especially with the jeeps shorter wheelbase. I really like the Blue Ox WDH we have. However, if may help your payload limit out to use an Andersen WDH, as it is the lightest of the non-friction WDHs. I've never used the Andersen, so I'm not claiming to recommend it, I just wanted to point it out as the option with the least impact to your payload limits. it weighs ~60 pounds, so saves you ~40 pounds of direct payload.

If you find that you have control issue with the jeep keeping the TT in line, you can go the pricey route and get a ProPride, but these are heavy on the payload (~200 pounds).

The propride hitch will certainly help with sway, but now both of your friends have to run along side the jeep...

Overall you're RIGHT on the limits, and you'll need to understand that a Jeep isn't a fantastic TV for a 26" TT. You are asking a lot from this jeep, especially in the mountains.

A V6 is going to run high RPM's, especially climbing hills or mountains. Think 3rd gear and 3500 RPM. Shifting into 2nd on inclines. Not ideal at all. A V8 would do much better, especially if you get a newer one with an 8 speed transmission.

I'll finish this by saying this: Check my signature for our TT and TV. It's as much as I would tow with our RAM 1500. I must be cautious when loading, and put EVERYTHING but people and the dog in the TT while towing. We have a trip planned to Moab next fall and I'm pretty sure that by the time we get back we will be looking at a diesel 2500.

I think you'll be fairly unhappy with how hard your jeep has to work to tow this trailer. I'd either go with a smaller trailer, or plan on buying a truck in the next 6 months.
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Old 10-09-2015, 11:08 AM   #6
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Thank you SmokeyWren and Loraura for well detailed to the point replies. That was exactly what I was looking for. A baseline on which decisions to make. Now I can finalize which trailer to buy.
Unfortunately, my budget of $33k for a new SUV would only allow me to get the v6 gas engine. It would have been another 10k more for the diesel option which I could not afford. Since it is mostly just me, and sometimes, if im lucky, one other person. I do not need a large trailer.

I looked at the ORV Creekside website again and checked out their smallest model. from your figures it looks like this would be a much better fit!

Creek Side 20FQ
Dry Weight - Lbs.4400
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.) 410
ORV: Creek Side 20FQ
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:34 PM   #7
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Without going into all of the numbers other than published dry weight of 3800#, here are my thoughts. Our TV is similar to yours spec wise although it has a 3.21 rear end. We have pulled our Minnie Winnie 4157 miles so far and it pulls great. I always use the tow/haul mode and usually limit the top gear to 5 or 6 depending on the terrain. Most of the time I set the cruse on 60 mph unless I get into steep hills. Then I take it easy because I'm never in a hurry. If necessary I'll let the engine wind but seldom past about 3500 rpm.

I use a Husky WDH and sway control. Trailer sits very level and I never have any trouble with sway. I feel like I have the perfect combination for 2 retired folks on the road.

Ken

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Old 10-10-2015, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinlp38 View Post
Thank you SmokeyWren and Loraura for well detailed to the point replies. That was exactly what I was looking for. A baseline on which decisions to make. Now I can finalize which trailer to buy.
Unfortunately, my budget of $33k for a new SUV would only allow me to get the v6 gas engine. It would have been another 10k more for the diesel option which I could not afford. Since it is mostly just me, and sometimes, if im lucky, one other person. I do not need a large trailer.

I looked at the ORV Creekside website again and checked out their smallest model. from your figures it looks like this would be a much better fit!

Creek Side 20FQ
Dry Weight - Lbs.4400
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.) 410
ORV: Creek Side 20FQ


That trailer is still 6200 max. Dry weights don't mean anything because you never tow dry. When you go look at campers, read the yellow sticker on the door. It will list the weight as shipped from the factory. This will include any options like awnings, microwaves, tvs and AC units that are only very rarely included in published dry weights.m it probably still does not include propane and a battery which are typically added by the dealership.

4400 seems heavy to me for a 20 foot TT. I know outdoors RV makes good trailers, but they are heavier than some alternatives.

Keep looking and comparing. Check yellow stickers. Double check your door jam sticker on the jeep. You'll find the right fit. You'll be SO MUCH HAPPIER knowing you have a TV and TT that are well and safely paired. You also won't have to drive with white knuckles everywhere!
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:46 AM   #9
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Sorry, I didn't post the stats of this 4 season welded aluminum trailer. But its 25' ft long.

Full Feature Dry Weight - Lbs.4400
Fresh Water Capacity (approx. gal)66
Tire SizeST205/75 15Load Range C
Exterior Length (approx. w / hitch)24'7"
LPG Capacity (approx. pounds)60
Gray Water Tank (approx. gallons)40
Black Water Tank (approx. gallons)40
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.)410Net
Carrying Capacity1800
Maximum Trailer Weight - Lbs.6200
Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.)3990
Exterior Height10'7" w/ AC
Interior Height6'11"
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:48 PM   #10
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You situation is very similar to mine. In terms of payload you should be ok, 150 lb driver is included in unloaded weight of the Jeep, do you will have to subtract only 85lb of your weight from the payload capacity which will sweeten the pill to some extent.
WD will transfer about 50-70lb back to the trailer axles which will help as well. Carrying full load of water is not necessary, at least from my standpoint, although going completely without water may adversely affect stability. I've been on the Cat scales once and was happy with the results, it looked like i could easily sit the 4th person in the Merc without going over the GVWR.
In terms of performance in the mountains I can say that gas V6 will spin in order to make power but it does the job, this is a simple fact of life. I definitely dont see any drama if my tach needle goes north of 4000 rpms for a few minutes given that the red line is at 6600 rpms. I initially worried more about the temperature gauge, but mine was steady as a rock, and I eventually stopped following it. This summer trip to Vermont was the only time when we hit the limit. On some of the grades our speed fell to 52-55 mph with completely floored accelerator (4th gear, 3500rpm). However, we were still passing some 18 wheelers and diesel pickups with oversized 5th wheels. In less demanding states, like upstate NY , the Merc will drop from 5th to 4th while keeping its 60-65mph.
Good luck
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
WD will transfer about 50-70lb back to the trailer axles which will help as well.
This is not my understanding of how WDH work. The weight is distributed forward to the front axles to help level the truck and regain steering control. No significant amount of weight is taken off the tow vehicle, just moved forward.

Do you have scale weights showing that once your WDH is connected that your trailer axle weight goes up?
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Do you have scale weights showing that once your WDH is connected that your trailer axle weight goes up?
Yes. Ideal tongue weight distribution is 20 to 25% forward to the front axle, 20 to 25% back to the trailer axles, and 50 to 60% remaining on the rear axle. Mine is not even close to ideal, but here it is before loading the trailer for the road:

Tongue weight per Sherline tongue weight scale = 570 pounds.

Without WD spring bars:
F = 3040
r = 3880
t = 3480
g = 10,400

With WD:
F = 3280
R = 3520
T = 3620
g = 10.420

Difference:
F = 3280 - 3040 = 240 pounds distributed to front axle = 42%
R = 3880 - 3520 = 360 pounds removed from rear axle
T = 3620 - 3480 = 140 pounds distributed to the trailer axles = 25%
G = 20 pounds scale error

Too much moved to the front axle, and perfect distribution to the trailer axles, so there's still some adjustment to the angle of the hitch head required to get it right. That was with a Reese Strait-Line WD hitch. I need to weigh it twice again with a loaded trailer and the now-installed ProPride hitch before the next long RV trip.

A later scale ticket with a loaded trailer on the road shows 11,580 gross weight, or 1,180 pounds more than with the empty trailer, but I didn't get a second scale ticket with the WD bars relaxed, so I don't know the weight distribution percentages with the loaded trailer.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:39 PM   #13
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Thank you all for the great information. I purchased my new 2015 Jeep grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 last week. I'm stunned on the drive quality and what I got for my dollar. Coming from a 2013 Subaru Forester says a lot. I'm very happy with this new SUV. It will be at least February until I can afford to finance a new Travel Trailer. Will update then with lots of photo's.
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