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Old 01-26-2016, 08:48 PM   #1
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2016 F450 towing a 2016 Chaparral 360IBL: 15,500lbs

Hey guys! Friday was a special day for us as we traded in our 6month old Travel trailer and upgraded to a new fifth wheel. We had such a great time using our TT all of 6 times that we wanted something a little more "homier feeling" interior. We love everything about our new trailer. The fit and finish really suprised us moving up from a TT. Plus it's nice to have G rated tires under it and a bike rack integrated on the back.

My truck sits perfectly level unloaded but squats a little under the 2200lb pin weight (1.5"). I already have airbags on order and will be installing them Friday. Towing it is SOOO much nicer and controlled than pulling my previous travel trailer that weighted 6000lbs less!







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Old 01-26-2016, 09:41 PM   #2
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Wow, that's an amazing looking fiver and overall nice lookin setup!! Congrats.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:54 PM   #3
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Nice. Wave when you see us. We will recognize you by the big smiles.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:18 PM   #4
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Very nice looking 5th wheel and great combo with that dually.
I'm confused by couple of statements.

You posted:
2016 F450 towing a 2016 Chaparral 360IBL: 15,500lbs

"My truck sits perfectly level unloaded but squats a little under the 2200lb pin weight (1.5"). I already have airbags on order and will be installing them Friday."...............

You have a 2016 F450 and you are going to have to had 'air bags' because of a 1.5" change in rear from only a 2200# pin weight

Where did you get the 15,500lbs. number?
Website lists 360IBL GVWR as 14,000#

Coachmen RV - Manufacturer of Travel Trailers - Fifth Wheels - Tent Campers - Motorhomes

And a 2200# pin weight is hardly any weight for a F450 which has a payload capacity at minimum of 5000#

2016 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | Ford.com

Air bags.......really
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Very nice looking 5th wheel and great combo with that dually.
I'm confused by couple of statements.

You posted:
2016 F450 towing a 2016 Chaparral 360IBL: 15,500lbs

"My truck sits perfectly level unloaded but squats a little under the 2200lb pin weight (1.5"). I already have airbags on order and will be installing them Friday."...............

You have a 2016 F450 and you are going to have to had 'air bags' because of a 1.5" change in rear from only a 2200# pin weight

Where did you get the 15,500lbs. number?
Website lists 360IBL GVWR as 14,000#

Coachmen RV - Manufacturer of Travel Trailers - Fifth Wheels - Tent Campers - Motorhomes

And a 2200# pin weight is hardly any weight for a F450 which has a payload capacity at minimum of 5000#

2016 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | Ford.com

Air bags.......really
Regarding the Wieght. We scaled the truck at a truck stop down the street from the dealer and it showed the trailer coming in at 12448lbs after subtracting the trucks Wieght. I might have to reweigh it though.

On our first trip out, we got flashed by 90% of the cars passing by us. I mean aggressively flashed. They would start with a single flash, then multiple flash, and would lock their high beams on. Regardless of me flashing them back to show them my low beams were on. I don't feel like adjusting the headlights every time we go out.

1.5" dip might not be much, but it's enough to point the low beams up into oncoming traffic.

Oh...I like having airbags on my trucks. I also have a roll off trailer with gooseneck that I haul a 15k Backhoe around our ranch.
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:05 AM   #6
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Here are some ranch pictures. You can see the gooseneck BigTex that weighs in around 7k and our Terex TX760b behind our rust bucket coming in around 15k


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Old 01-27-2016, 01:33 AM   #7
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F450 Dually......a minimum of 5000# payload...........31,200# tow rating

And a 12K 5vr squats your truck enough that low beam headlights are a glaring nuisance to oncoming traffic


I tow a 14K 5vr with a 2900# pin wet with a 2007 3500 SRW ------right at trucks ratings and in 8 yrs NEVER had an oncoming flash cause truck and trailer are level

Just not understanding the reason your truck can't handle that light of 5vr w/o mods

Am I missing something?
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:55 AM   #8
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Not sure. Honestly, it doesn't take much to cause the headlights to aim up slightly. They might just be adjusted too high from the start. I'll probably mess with the headlight aim first. There are several F450 owners with the same year truck that are hauling much much larger toy haulers and not getting the back to dip. Perhaps I have my hitch adjusted too far back. On the other hand, 1.5" of dip isn't much for 2000+ lbs.

My trailer was probably closer to max weight due to the fact that I had a generator, weight distribution hitch, and full water tank and a semi full grey tank (yeah, dealer didn't empty them after the pdi) when I was towing it back. That's 48gals of fresh water and almost 60gals of grey
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:22 AM   #9
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I too am baffled. Unlike a TT, where the weight is on the rear of the truck frame and the rear axle acts like a pivot point, the weight on a 5th wheel is centered over the rear axle causing the front wheels to be the pivot point. Unless I missed something, on a 5th wheel, a 1.5 inch drop over the axle will cause a negligible rise of the headlights. Actually, on my truck, when I attach the trailer, the weight of the steering axle increases slightly.

My trailer's GVWR is 18,750 lbs. with a pin weight of around 4100 lbs. Fully loaded truck and trailer just about maxes out the GCWR of 30,000 lbs. for my 2012 F450. See attached spreadsheet.

I looked at the specs for your truck and trailer. You don't have enough trailer for the truck. I have a Kelderman Air Ride system on my truck to help smooth out the ride. Without the weight to smooth out the ride on your truck, you may need air bags.

I noticed in your last post you said the hitch may be too far back. The hitch need to be centered over the rear axle or slightly forward. Back of the axle will cause the front to rise.

F450 and Excel Weights.pdf
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CARLnJANIS View Post
I too am baffled. Unlike a TT, where the weight is on the rear of the truck frame and the rear axle acts like a pivot point, the weight on a 5th wheel is centered over the rear axle causing the front wheels to be the pivot point. Unless I missed something, on a 5th wheel, a 1.5 inch drop over the axle will cause a negligible rise of the headlights. Actually, on my truck, when I attach the trailer, the weight of the steering axle increases slightly.

My trailer's GVWR is 18,750 lbs. with a pin weight of around 4100 lbs. Fully loaded truck and trailer just about maxes out the GCWR of 30,000 lbs. for my 2012 F450. See attached spreadsheet.

I looked at the specs for your truck and trailer. You don't have enough trailer for the truck. I have a Kelderman Air Ride system on my truck to help smooth out the ride. Without the weight to smooth out the ride on your truck, you may need air bags.

I noticed in your last post you said the hitch may be too far back. The hitch need to be centered over the rear axle or slightly forward. Back of the axle will cause the front to rise.

Attachment 117511
Don't hear people say "too much truck for a trailer" often... You made my day

Now, here is a picture of my hitch position. I believe this is the cause of the dip. Since it is positioning the hitch slightly behind the axle, there is no weight being transferred to the front axle. Seems to pull just fine though. No issues other than blinding oncoming traffic. Could be fixed with bags or a slight headlight adjustment.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	14539020904550.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	117518  
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:42 AM   #11
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Have an 05 450. Pin weight is 2500 (from memory). Back end drops about an inch when loading.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Very nice looking 5th wheel and great combo with that dually.
I'm confused by couple of statements.

You posted:
2016 F450 towing a 2016 Chaparral 360IBL: 15,500lbs

"My truck sits perfectly level unloaded but squats a little under the 2200lb pin weight (1.5"). I already have airbags on order and will be installing them Friday."...............

You have a 2016 F450 and you are going to have to had 'air bags' because of a 1.5" change in rear from only a 2200# pin weight

Where did you get the 15,500lbs. number?
Website lists 360IBL GVWR as 14,000#

Coachmen RV - Manufacturer of Travel Trailers - Fifth Wheels - Tent Campers - Motorhomes

And a 2200# pin weight is hardly any weight for a F450 which has a payload capacity at minimum of 5000#

2016 Ford Super Duty | View Payload Specifications | Ford.com

Air bags.......really
HA you beat me to it! I know the fords have a soft rear axle but there is no way that truck should need bags with such little load.

OP great choice on the Dually as you will end up with a larger RV in no time. Also good call on the B&W hitch.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronCobra View Post
Not sure. Honestly, it doesn't take much to cause the headlights to aim up slightly. They might just be adjusted too high from the start. I'll probably mess with the headlight aim first. There are several F450 owners with the same year truck that are hauling much much larger toy haulers and not getting the back to dip. Perhaps I have my hitch adjusted too far back. On the other hand, 1.5" of dip isn't much for 2000+ lbs.

My trailer was probably closer to max weight due to the fact that I had a generator, weight distribution hitch, and full water tank and a semi full grey tank (yeah, dealer didn't empty them after the pdi) when I was towing it back. That's 48gals of fresh water and almost 60gals of grey
You should have your hitch full forward!
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:09 AM   #14
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Don't hear people say "too much truck for a trailer" often... You made my day

Now, here is a picture of my hitch position. I believe this is the cause of the dip. Since it is positioning the hitch slightly behind the axle, there is no weight being transferred to the front axle. Seems to pull just fine though. No issues other than blinding oncoming traffic. Could be fixed with bags or a slight headlight adjustment.
The side plates that support the hitch head need to be swapped side to side so the "straight" edge is towards the cab and place them in the holes closest to the cab. Honestly your RV with hitch full forward will place less than 100# on the front axle.

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