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Old 01-28-2014, 08:52 AM   #29
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Another off topic: When building a new home, consider the Ground Source Heat Pump as an HVAC unit. Very efficient (27+EERs) and nothing is outside the house.
My electricity bill has dropped an average 41%/month since installing my retro unit.
It IS more expensive, but in a new home, cost is more easily amortized over the life of the mortgage, and 30% tax credits are in place til 2016.
Check out www.igshpa.okstate.edu or www.climatemaster.com for some background.
This type heat pump works 24/7/365 and is not dependent on sunlight or wind.
Joe
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
This is off topic:

Since this will be the house you spend the rest of your lives in, i hope you at least put in the wiring provisions for alternative energy, like Solar or Wind turbines. Shouldn't cost much extra to put the wires up to the roof, or to a panel box outside. So if you do get panels of a turbine, you can just hook it up pretty easily.

I say this because coal fired power plants currently make up 50% of our electrical grid. People are lobbying to get them shut down. On top of that, our electricity prices have been steadily increasing as well. So 10-20 years from now, it makes more sense to invest in producing your own electricity to supplement your home.

I would ask your builder or electrician about making it "solar ready". What the added cost would be. I would also ask to use the heaviest guage(lowest number wire) for the solar panel wiring runs. The heavier the guage, the less resistance in the wire, the less voltage drop between the panel and the grid-tie inverter.

Something like this:
Solar Ready Home | Grid Tied Solar Inverters and Solar Ready Home Kits manufactured by EnaSolar in New Zealand
It's basically just the wiring and an empty box which ties into the breaker. When you want to go solar, you just buy the panels and have them mounted on the roof, and buy an inverter which swaps out in place of the empty box.
We have considered solar panels, my daughter and her husband built a new home three years ago across the road where we're building. They did a very big solar array, and once the SIL is employed again, they plan on adding.

But for us the economics don't work. For one thing my life expectancy is probably somewhat less than optimal, as I'm mid 60's and have survived nine heart operations (so far, so good!). Wife was diagnosed with pre-leukemia several years ago, but remains stable for the time being. The other half of the economics picture is that the grid we're part of is 90% or so hydro based, and consequently is cheaper and cleaner than most of the country. Price varies a bit with the seasons, but averages around nine cents per kwh most of the time. This state has pretty tight building code energy requirements, but we're selecting options that exceed those standards for heating, insulation, and glazing. I think we'll be okay.

But, thanks for your caring enough to write a thoughtful note! I appreciate it.

Cheers!
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60 View Post
Another off topic: When building a new home, consider the Ground Source Heat Pump as an HVAC unit. Very efficient (27+EERs) and nothing is outside the house.
My electricity bill has dropped an average 41%/month since installing my retro unit.
It IS more expensive, but in a new home, cost is more easily amortized over the life of the mortgage, and 30% tax credits are in place til 2016.
Check out www.igshpa.okstate.edu or www.climatemaster.com for some background.
This type heat pump works 24/7/365 and is not dependent on sunlight or wind.
Joe
Another great OT post..

A friend near here did a ground sourced heat pump, it was really expensive and will take many years to recoup the cost. I might not have that many years! LOL

But the point is moot, our particular building site has very shallow soils to bedrock, vertical deployment is VERY expensive locally, and horizontal might require some blasting to get adequate depth and volume. Not happening.

We do intend to utilize an air exchange heat pump, and even that's a bit spendy over a conventional furnace. But I'm willing to spend a bit more for that technology, and since there are several companies in that heat pump business, pricing is more competitive. . To my knowledge, there are only two companies doing ground source heat pumps here. Mostly, I believe the upfront costs don't balance out the payoff, for us. YMMV, of course!

But thanks muchly for your comments!

Cheers!

Now, back to our regular programming this evening.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:45 AM   #32
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looks like M2D's thread on 250 vs 350 differences got hijacked.

There are much more same specs between the one ton F250/2500 and the one ton SRW than any differences. The main difference mechanically is higher rated rear springs/wheels and tires for more load capacities for the SRW truck. Looking at each mfg specs shows very few if any differences mechanically.

The DRW is hands down a much larger capacity truck with those 9000-9800 RAWR and 14000 GVWR numbers. I wouldn't think the OP is concerned with a DRW.

The last 6-8 years the Ford/Dodge Ram and GM SRW and the 2500 trucks with the diesel options are basically the same trucks including the '14 Ram when we look at the tech specs.
For '14 the 2500/3500 SRW Rams frame is basically the same sidewall heights/frame thickness/same front and aft inner and outer frame dimensions/same psi materials. The difference is hips were added to the 2500 frame for the new coil spring suspension. The 2500 with the 6.7 has the same front axle/engine/tranny and the big 11.5" AAM rear axle including brake specs and all other specs. Tow ratings are identical between the two truck.

The OP is looking at the GM HD truck. IMO the 2500 or the 3500 SRW will work for them unless their into 15k+ trailers where the DRW shines

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Old 01-29-2014, 10:24 AM   #33
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There are much more same specs between the one ton F250/2500 and the one ton SRW than any differences.
Unless you are a PE in chassis engineering, it's silly to try to determine and measure any differences between tow vehicles. The PEs that designed the trucks have done the brain work for you, and the answer is in one number that is posted on the Federal Certification Sticker in the door jab - the GVWR. On a Ford SuperDuty, there is 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR between an F-250 and an F-350 SRW. Since the two vehicles with identical options weigh within 15 pounds of each other, you can assume that the F-350 SRW has almost 1500 pounds more payload capacity for hitch weight.

I haven't studied Ram and GM specs, but I'll bet the difference in GVWR is very similar to the Ford.

Hitch weight is the limiter on almost all tow vehicles with single rear wheels (SRW). So cease trying to be a PE in chassis engineering and rely on the GVWR the PEs have already given you.

Worrying about where that 1,500 pounds payload capacity came from is an unproductive waste of time. It's there, so rely on it.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:31 AM   #34
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Smokey,

Follow up to our exchange the other day...

Finally had some time to follow that link you suggested, and to study the info there. Not sure why I'd not stumbled across that on my visits to Ford's web pages. It was precisely the detailed information I was seeking.

So, thanks again!

Bill
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:13 AM   #35
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Unless you are a PE in chassis engineering, it's silly to try to determine and measure any differences between tow vehicles.
It would be wonderful if engineers made all the decisions, but often the marketing dept. has the say... and if they say they want to call a HD 2500 with helper springs a '3500 SRW', then that's what is going to happen. And that's what has happened in many cases.

It might be 'silly' to make the distinction when you're on a dealer lot and the SRW 3500 only costs $500 more, but if you already own the truck it's not 'silly' to do the reserach, it's smart.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:59 AM   #36
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It ain't rocket science. If you already have a 3/4 ton then just add some airbags or Timbrens, upgrade tires if needed and you have a 1 ton.
If you're shopping for a new truck get a 1 ton.
Too much is made of this all the time.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:02 PM   #37
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It ain't rocket science. If you already have a 3/4 ton then just add some airbags or Timbrens, upgrade tires if needed and you have a 1 ton.
No, you don't. You have a modified 3/4 ton that still has the same GCWR, GVWR and GAWRs that were assigned to it when it left the factory.

Although it is in error regarding the pin/tongue weight of the trailer applied to the tow vehicle vis-a-vis GVWR, the following is quoted directly from the Air Lift website:

Quote:
Leveling Capacity and GVWR

There is some confusion in the market place as to what leveling capacity means and how this differs from gross vehicle weight rating. Whether you’re towing a trailer or driving a heavily laden vehicle, it’s important to understand what they mean and the difference between the two.

First, we need to know that the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer: Including the vehicle’s chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

On vehicles designed for the United States market, the GVWR can be found alongside other vehicle technical specifications on the Vehicle ID Plate located on the interior of the B-pillar.

There’s also a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) which refers to the total mass of a vehicle, including all trailers. GVWR and GCWR both describe a vehicle that is in operation and are used to specify weight limitations and restrictions. These are extremely important and should NEVER be exceeded.
.
.

On a heavily laden vehicle, Air Lift’s air springs can effectively correct the ride height and distribute the additional weight, thereby improving ride comfort and handling. In spite of air spring’s leveling capacity, they do not in any way increase the GVWR or GCWR of the vehicle. It’s up to the operator to ensure the vehicle complies with the GVWR/GCWR at all times.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:27 PM   #38
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No, you don't. You have a modified 3/4 ton that still has the same GCWR, GVWR and GAWRs that were assigned to it when it left the factory.
OK then, if you do happen to own one of the 2500 models that are identical to the 3500 SRW and need another 400 lbs. GVWR over your 2500 sticker then what you should do is sell your truck, take the loss, and buy a 3500 SRW that has a higher number on the sticker. Uh huh.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:48 PM   #39
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1. I don't know of any 2500s that are, in your words, "identical" to the 3500 SRW.

2. You either decide to tow in excess of the tow vehicle's GVWR or not and prepare yourself to live with any potential consequences of your decision.

The vehicle manufacturer says don't exceed any vehicle rating. Reputable aftermarket suppliers such as Air Lift say don't exceed any vehicle rating. As an engineer, I'm certainly not going to recommend to any RVing newbie that they start off in excess of the rated capability of their vehicle from day 1.

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Old 01-29-2014, 01:30 PM   #40
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1. I don't know of any 2500s that are, in your words, "identical" to the 3500 SRW.
Research the 2003-? Dodge diesel 2500 HD and 3500 SRW. Identical drivetrain, frame, brakes, axle/differential, etc. Only difference is a set of helper springs on the 3500 SRW. No doubt there are others but that's the one I researched most closely. Even the 3500 DRW of that vintage are the same except for the additional tires and springs.

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2. You either decide to tow in excess of the tow vehicle's GVWR or not and prepare yourself to live with any potential consequences of your decision.
This has been beat to death so I'm not going at it again here, other than to say in terms of safety there is no rational difference in weight carrying capacity of identical components. Whether one want to be concerned about sticker-only issues is indeed a personal decision.
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:01 PM   #41
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Just wondering...maybe the person who will really be interested in the "sticker rating" might be the insurance company investigator after an accident?

Chatted with our BIL about this perspective just to hear his point of view. He earned a good living for many years as a certified accident re-constructionist in the insurance industry. His viewpoint as an on scene or after the fact investigator would be to look at all the evidence, including ratings stickers, to determine causative factors. Insurance companies prefer to limit their own financial obligations, and will use all means to do so...just sayin'!

Not a personal worry for me, not going down that overloaded road!

Cheers!
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:05 PM   #42
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Unless you are a PE in chassis engineering, it's silly to try to determine and measure any differences between tow vehicles. The PEs that designed the trucks have done the brain work for you, and the answer is in one number that is posted on the Federal Certification Sticker in the door jab - the GVWR. On a Ford SuperDuty, there is 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR between an F-250 and an F-350 SRW. Since the two vehicles with identical options weigh within 15 pounds of each other, you can assume that the F-350 SRW has almost 1500 pounds more payload capacity for hitch weight.

I haven't studied Ram and GM specs, but I'll bet the difference in GVWR is very similar to the Ford.

Hitch weight is the limiter on almost all tow vehicles with single rear wheels (SRW). So cease trying to be a PE in chassis engineering and rely on the GVWR the PEs have already given you.

Worrying about where that 1,500 pounds payload capacity came from is an unproductive waste of time. It's there, so rely on it.
You're using "PE" too loosely here. A Professional Engineer actually has a PE license stamped by the state they are operating in. In most states, you have to pass the FE(Fundamentals of Engineering Exam) and work as an engineer for 4 years before you can even take the PE exam, which is a very difficult exam even for an engineer, most people fail the first time just to get a feel for it, then take it again, or several times before they pass. ALL in ALL, most engineers don't have the time for that once they're in their careers and start their families. The only engineers that do go for it are looking to become project leads for government work, mostly in civil engineering type stuff. A PE has to go over all the work being performed namely for liability reasons. Many government contracts require a PE to give oversight to the project to make sure it's being done correctly, and say not collapse. For all this oversight and liability, PE's will usually make over 6 figures. There are PE's in industry like automotive, but it's rare. It's far more common to see engineers with PHD's than it is with a PE in private sector non-government contract work.

I have a masters in electrical engineering, i only know of 1 engineer having a PE license out of maybe 300 engineers in my building. He was my mentor when i was an intern, and he got it at age 55 just because he was bored and wanted to challenge himself.

In automotive design, most of the people designing products have a bachelors, masters, and some PHD's. They are engineers, but nothing has ever been designed perfectly on the first try. Our software tools are not totally correct either. Take a look at the F150 Raptor, i'm sure they did tons of computer analysis and lab testing on the frame, as well as the baja, yet it's having issues with bending.
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