250 vs 350

[smiller]

Originally Posted by SeabeckS

Chatted with our BIL about this perspective just to hear his point of view. He earned a good living for many years as a certified accident re-constructionist in the insurance industry. His viewpoint as an on scene or after the fact investigator would be to look at all the evidence, including ratings stickers, to determine causative factors. Insurance companies prefer to limit their own financial obligations, and will use all means to do so...just sayin'!

Yeah, I know, as this gets endlessly re-hashed I've read no end of 'my brother's cousin's friend's a lawyer who says...' comments and other hypotheticals both pro and con. As I said above, anyone who has a safe truck/tow combination and wants to sell it and re-purchase just so they won't be 200 lbs. above the sticker weight is free to do so.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by SeabeckS

Just wondering...maybe the person who will really be interested in the "sticker rating" might be the insurance company investigator after an accident?

Chatted with our BIL about this perspective just to hear his point of view. He earned a good living for many years as a certified accident re-constructionist in the insurance industry. His viewpoint as an on scene or after the fact investigator would be to look at all the evidence, including ratings stickers, to determine causative factors. Insurance companies prefer to limit their own financial obligations, and will use all means to do so...just sayin'!

Not a personal worry for me, not going down that overloaded road!

Cheers!

How's he going to weigh the rigs? Assuming that the accident causes the 5'er/TT to be rolled or just plain in a ditch. Since when do adjusters get scales out and weigh anything? Has anyone ever heard or seen it happen?
How do they know how everything was loaded when 1/2 the stuff is thrown all over.
Only thing that will happen is the RV owner will get a ticket for failure to maintain control of his vehicle. No different than someone else in a car driving too fast and causing a wreck. 1,000 of people tow over the limit every day. You only see commercial truckers pulled over.
I really don't think any LEO is concerned about some guy that's 500lbs over his GVW.
Drive thru any CG and look at how many guys are over loaded. It's amazing really. Does that make it right? No. It just puts it all in perspective that a 3/4 ton is nothing more than a 1 ton lite. Add bags or whatever and in reality it will haul more safer than the 1 ton. That over load spring only adds 4-500lbs of extra load. Bags or Timbrens add way more. So mechanically my 12 Ram 2500 with Timbrens has more payload capacity than a 3500. Tires are the only limiting factor. Even the 1 ton DRW has the same frame, drive train and front suspension.
This whole thread is getting silly.
I'm more worried about some idiot texting on their phone and causing a wreck than I am about towing 200lbs over GVW.

[SeabeckS]

Uh, he doesn't have to weigh the rigs, but he could arrange to get it done if a collision is likely to be a high loss insurance claim (ie, severe injuries and/or loss of life). Most of the analysis is done by precise measurements of an accident scene and scientific analysis of all the data. When the wreckage is hauled away, the insurance company sort of "owns" it, and will keep it under their control until an investigation is complete. Of course they don't do this for minor fender benders, nor for obviously safe operation circumstances (eg, an F-250 pulling a 24' TT). This sort of investigative detail really is reserved for high loss circumstance.

Mine was sort of a casual observation. I'm not a traffic accident investigator, obviously...LOL. I was a trained arson investigator, at a local, state level with advanced training through the National Fire Academy. One term I became very familiar with in my own interactions with insurance companies is "subrogation".

If a company can reduce or eliminate their financial responsibility to pay a high dollar claim, they can and will use every tool in their belt, including a very high tech investigation to do exactly that. I've never believed that any insurance company is my friend, it's a business deal...

YMMV!

[Cumminsfan]

No doubt the ins co will try to wiggle out of it somehow. But in reality they have to pay the claim. Civil court is another topic for another day I guess.

[SeabeckS]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

No doubt the ins co will try to wiggle out of it somehow. But in reality they have to pay the claim. Civil court is another topic for another day I guess.

Sorry, but they don't have to pay the claim in all cases. It is not automatic, their contracts are carefully constructed to give them escape clauses. You are correct though that civil court is another topic for another day.

Take care! Bill

[JIMNLIN]

Unless you are a PE in chassis engineering, it's silly to try to determine and measure any differences between tow vehicles. The PEs that designed the trucks have done the brain work for you, and the answer is in one number that is posted on the Federal Certification Sticker in the door jab - the GVWR. On a Ford SuperDuty, there is 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR between an F-250 and an F-350 SRW. Since the two vehicles with identical options weigh within 15 pounds of each other, you can assume that the F-350 SRW has almost 1500 pounds more payload capacity for hitch weight.

It doesn't take a PE or any type of engineer to go through the truck manufactures builders spec sheets and see the physical specs in the two trucks components which if you read my reply tends toward that respect.

The OP question was 250 vs 350 so please educate yourself on the topic especially about the F250 vs F350 SRW and their mechanical specs. Not all F350 SRW are rated 1500 lbs above a F250 GVWR.
The F350 SRW GVWR starts at 10000 lb and goes up with close to a dozen different GVWRs on up to 11500 and three different RAWR numbers.

Even a non engineer can see Ford has a F350 SRW with the same 10000 GVWR as the F250 by reading Fords spec sheets.

Those same spec sheets list the mechanical differences which is just about nil other than the higher ratings for the rear springs/and larger capacity wheels and tires.

The topic isn't about the trucks certification placard numbers but about the mechanical differences or same as specs in 250 vs 350.

[RustyJC]

The OP's question was what factors enter into the selection between a 250 and 350 when purchasing a new truck. Since they are purchasing new and have the benefit of making a selection, why not select a truck that's rated for what they intend to tow, whether that takes a 250 or 350? I can't imagine why one would select and buy a new truck that's overloaded on GVWR the first time it's hitched to a 5th wheel.

Rusty

[SeabeckS]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

The OP's question was what factors enter into the selection between a 250 and 350 when purchasing a new truck. Since they are purchasing new and have the benefit of making a selection, why not select a truck that's rated for what they intend to tow, whether that takes a 250 or 350? I can't imagine why one would select and buy a new truck that's overloaded on GVWR the first time it's hitched to a 5th wheel.

Rusty

Amen, and my apologies for the OT wanderings.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by JIMNLIN

I Not all F350 SRW are rated 1500 lbs above a F250 GVWR.

You're right - if you go for a 4x2, a gas engine, or 17" tires you'll have less than 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR. Regular cabs and SuperCab shortys also have less than 1500 pounds difference in GVWR

But most SuperDuty pickups sold are diesel 4x4 crewcabs with 18" tires, and all of those have 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR. Even 4x2 CrewCab diesels with either bed, and SuperCab diesels with 8' beds have 1,500 pounds difference in GVWR provided they have 18" tires.

So if you opt for a fleet special with 17" tires and gas engine, you won't have as much payload capacity as the more popular pickups chosen by individuals looking for a tow vehicle.

[caissiel]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

How's he going to weigh the rigs? Assuming that the accident causes the 5'er/TT to be rolled or just plain in a ditch. Since when do adjusters get scales out and weigh anything? Has anyone ever heard or seen it happen?
How do they know how everything was loaded when 1/2 the stuff is thrown all over.
Only thing that will happen is the RV owner will get a ticket for failure to maintain control of his vehicle. No different than someone else in a car driving too fast and causing a wreck. 1,000 of people tow over the limit every day. You only see commercial truckers pulled over.
I really don't think any LEO is concerned about some guy that's 500lbs over his GVW.
Drive thru any CG and look at how many guys are over loaded. It's amazing really. Does that make it right? No. It just puts it all in perspective that a 3/4 ton is nothing more than a 1 ton lite. Add bags or whatever and in reality it will haul more safer than the 1 ton. That over load spring only adds 4-500lbs of extra load. Bags or Timbrens add way more. So mechanically my 12 Ram 2500 with Timbrens has more payload capacity than a 3500. Tires are the only limiting factor. Even the 1 ton DRW has the same frame, drive train and front suspension.
This whole thread is getting silly.
I'm more worried about some idiot texting on their phone and causing a wreck than I am about towing 200lbs over GVW.

It's the way it is, could not say it any better.


An older wise truck driver said it this way in a ford forum.

His words....
From what I have seen the SRWs are as capable to carry the weight as allowed by the installed tires as any duelly.
The observations that I have seen is that most duellies are overloaded and over driven for the capacity they are rated for.
He also said that semis are using the super singles safely.
And in finishing he stated he was all in favour and only own a well equipped SRW.

I have a Ford SRW and I can truly say that the rear springs on the newer models are not designed to have a constant load like a heavy 5 th wheel unit.
2 plies on the F250 and F350 SRW.
One more ply on the F350 DRW with helpers that are actually overloads.
These trucks look more like car ride designs then trucks to me.

I have 2 inches thick of springs on mine and they don't ride on the overloads as designed and equipped by the Ford dealer that leased it to the service company. They used it for 2 years and fully serviced and warrantied by the dealer before I bought it in auction. Used it for 7 years towing 15k trailer with great satisfaction. And I have never been overloaded
Trailer registered for 14K and truck 11.7k. And I am leaving it that way.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by caissiel

Used it for 7 years towing 15k trailer with great satisfaction. And I have never been overloaded
Trailer registered for 14K and truck 11.7k. And I am leaving it that way.

What's the driver's door sticker GVWR on your F250? What are the actual scale axle weights (front and rear GAWs) of the truck loaded and towing?

Rusty

[TXiceman]

I give up. he weight issues and how t determine your weights have been discussed and explained. I find the people that are the most passionate about SRW truck are the ones with over loaded SRW trucks and will not tell you anything about their scale weights. They seem to feel that if you tell yourself you are OK enough time, it will become true.

Please do the simple math and follow the truck manufacturers weight limits.

Ken

[M2D]

Thank you so much to everyone who has posted in this thread. We feel much more confident in our understanding of loads and truck choices.

We want to be conservative and safe in our travels. My husband says that is partly because we are both the oldest child in our families (and think we are responsible for everything).

Also we have both had careers in transportation of goods and services. I worked in the airline industry and my husband was involved in merchant ship operations for many years before coming ashore to work in IT. That man can pack a load like no other I have ever met. He pointed out to me long ago the dangers in having a cargo that can shift, like grain, and take you over with it. He was involved in some of the grain to Russia trips many years ago.

Thank you all once more for our education. I value your time in responding to us and promise to "pay it forward" as we are able to do so.

Michele

[smiller]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

I give up. he weight issues and how t determine your weights have been discussed and explained. I find the people that are the most passionate about SRW truck are the ones with over loaded SRW trucks and will not tell you anything about their scale weights. They seem to feel that if you tell yourself you are OK enough time, it will become true.

Please do the simple math and follow the truck manufacturers weight limits.

I did the simple math and can only comment on my specific case, but in that example I had a 2003 Dodge CTD HO 2500HD manual trans where I was within GCWR and GAWR but a few hundred pounds over GVWR. The 3500SRW version added enough GVWR to cover me but upon very careful reasearch I was able to determine that the 3500 SRW version available at the time was idenitical to my current truck in every way except for a set of helper springs. As a result I could find no rational reason to sell a truck I was very happy with and buy a new and essentially identical truck just because Dodge decided to rename what they used to call their 2500 'Camper Special' to a '3500 SRW'.

Would you have?

And regarding passion, the weight police seem to the ones who get most bent out of shape in these discussions.