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Old 05-01-2013, 01:48 PM   #1
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2500/F250 Diesel weight distribution

Hey gents. Just getting started on the forum and I would like to ask if anyone has actually weighed a 2500/F250 diesel pickup and if so waht percentage of the truck weight was on the front axle vs the back axle? This is a very important entering argument for me in determining the size of the 5th wheel I will end up with.
Thanks,
Bob
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
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Bob,

In truth, the only rear axle weight that matters to you is your truck, loaded up with the passenger and cargo load (and allowing ~200 lbs on the rear axle for the 5th wheel hitch, if you don't already have one) that you're going to have on a trip as well as a full tank of fuel. Everyone's loading is going to be unique, and it's easy to fuel up at a truck stop that has a set of CAT (or equivalent) 3-platform scales where you can get your actual front and rear axle and total laden curb weight loadings. With that data and the truck's GCWR, GVWR and GAWRs, you have some hard data applicable to your specific circumstances to work from.

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Old 05-01-2013, 02:45 PM   #3
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Thanks Rusty. I agree with all you said and will get the truck on the scales. I was just trying to do some research on trucks prior to actually buying one. Had much rather have a 2500 vice 3500D due to fact I will be using the truck for every day use as well as a tow vehicle. Trying to get as much info as I can so that I do not have a truck that is very limited on how much it can put on the pin.
Bob
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #4
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Bob,

If you're set on a SRW truck and want as much payload/towing capacity as possible, why not a 350/3500 SRW truck? They're physically no larger than the 250/2500, but the additional GVWR and rear axle GAWR will allow you to tow a larger 5th wheel without exceeding any ratings.

(I didn't realize you hadn't bought the truck yet.....)

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Old 05-01-2013, 06:27 PM   #5
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I agree with Rusty but the difference is not that much except for the 2013MY at least with the Ram trucks. The 2013MY are all new and have different weights for the 3500HD depending on what transmission and or engine you get with the SRW trucks.

Now for the 2013MY truck in the SRW configuration with Ram you only get one differential gear ration when the truck is equipped with a diesel engine and that is the 3:42 to 1.
I have also included the Ram Body Builders PDF downloadable booklet link for most of the MY years of the Ram trucks for you to review and decide if you want one of them.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/year.pdf

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bgall2 View Post
Thanks Rusty. I agree with all you said and will get the truck on the scales. I was just trying to do some research on trucks prior to actually buying one. Had much rather have a 2500 vice 3500D due to fact I will be using the truck for every day use as well as a tow vehicle. Trying to get as much info as I can so that I do not have a truck that is very limited on how much it can put on the pin.
Bob
Use Gms weight calculator that includes all std features and selected options for a very close to real world payloads on the front and rear axles and GVWR. GM Online Order / Reference Guide.

Click the year model and then follow the trail to the specs/trailering info and model and options weights (weight calculator). Great feature and a big help for those that don't have a truck to take to the scales for separate front and rear axle weights.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:51 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bgall2 View Post
Hey gents. Just getting started on the forum and I would like to ask if anyone has actually weighed a 2500/F250 diesel pickup and if so waht percentage of the truck weight was on the front axle vs the back axle? This is a very important entering argument for me in determining the size of the 5th wheel I will end up with.
It doesn't matter if you get a late-model Ford SuperDuty. If you never exceed the GVWR of the truck, then you'll never exceed the rear GAWR either. If you load a SuperDuty to the rear GAWR, then you're going to be overloaded over the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

Assuming 2013 model year, the F-350 SRW has GVWR of 11,500 pounds. You can expect a wet and loaded CrewCab 4x4 to weigh about 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer. That leaves 2,500 pounds for max hitch weight. 2,500 pounds hitch weight for a 5er with 18% hitch weight is a 5er with a GVWR not more than 13,888 pounds.

A more conservative estimate is the wet and loaded truck will gross 9,500 pounds before the trailer is tied on, and the trailer will have 20% hitch weight. That leaves 2000 pounds for maximum hitch weight, and the GVWR of the trailer should not be more than 10,000 pounds.

Given those weights, if you have to have an SRW tow vehicle, and you don't want to be overloaded, then I suggest that you not look at any 5er with GVWR more than about 12,000 pounds. So for any 5er with GVWR more than 12,000 pounds, buy a dually and be safe without worry about the weight of tools and jacks and options you haul in the truck when towing.

The 2013 F-350 DRW diesel has it's limits too. (That's why they make F-450s, F-550s and heavier trucks). GCWR and GVWR limiters both result in about the same max trailer weight of about 20,000 pounds. GCWR is 30,500 pounds, so using a conservative estimate of a max of 10,000 pounds truck weight, that leaves 20,500 pounds max 5er weight. GVWR is 14,000, so if you load the tow vehicle heavy to have 10,000 truck weight, then that leaves 4,000 pounds max hitch weight or 20,000 pounds max 5er weight.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #8
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Thanks a lot and please keep the information coming. I have looked at 350 SRW and like the truck. My only objection to DRW is that it will also be my every day vehicle. If I were in a position to fully retire the DRW would be a better option. I will say that it is a lot of fun to plan and think about. My girlfriend and I have talked about this for a few years now and I will be getting a new truck soon and this will be the one that I will tow with.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #9
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I just upgraded from a 2012 f250 srw with gvwr of 10k lbs to a 2013 f350 srw with a gvwr of 11.5k.
the 250 had air bags and towed, stopped, handled fine,
but I was always worried about weight, even after weighing everything...

the 350 without bags and unloaded rides as good as the 250 with bags did unloaded (IIRC) ...
but even without the rear airbags, it seemed to handle the 5er much better on our test run the other day...

Am going to the cat scales today to get an accurate weight of the 350 as the 250 weighed in at 8460... with a full tank, us, the dog, and my 350 lb superglide in the bed... which left me with only 1540 lbs payload for pin wgt, etc...

the new one will be put to a longer test when we meet a group about 7 hours away next week


Not that it needed it, but one thing I did want was a rear sway bar on the new one and so worked that into the deal... should be in tmo...

hope this helps and good luck on your quest !
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:34 AM   #10
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bgall2

You are at least going at this the correct way.

Ford recommends the fifth wheel be mounted so the center of the trailer king pin is 1 inch in front of the center of the rear axel. GM recommends the fifth wheel king pin to be ¾ of an inch in front of the center of the rear axel. At the time I purchased the Dodge 3500 DRW didn’t carry as much weight as Ford & GM so I didn’t check their recommendation. .

I carry about 1800 lbs in the front basement of our fifth wheel trailer. I have found that when you reach the GCWR the front axel of the towing vehicle is at its limit with a lot of reserve for the rear axel.

Now for the kicker.

If you decide to go over weight here is the possible result. A fellow that I know and use to see about once a month at an event at RV parks was a real smart a** because he had a CDL. He was pulling a large fifth wheel RV with a Dodge 2500. About 2,000 over loaded. He found me to be just throwing money away by purchasing a bigger truck to pull the same trailer. I hadn't seen him for several months.

I do consulting work for the legal community. So have to be careful about giving legal advice.

Well I see him last weekend. He was very reserved and not too talkative and driving a newer Dodge 3500. He final talked to me about the truck and here is what he said.

“I was coming to a red light and was slowing down with plenty of room to stop when a fellow whipped around in front of me an stopped. I could feel the Antilock working and the trailer brakes were doing all they could but I still hit him in the rear end. The Highway patrol weighed the rig. Then even though there were witness I was charge with the accident and latter was charged with a felony driving charge.”

The conversation went on a lot longer than this but you get the idea.

Most states have put the motor vehicle in a “dangerous tool” category. Having an accident with an overloaded vehicle is the same as accidentally shooting someone with you gun. At best it is not going to be a good day.

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Old 05-03-2013, 06:48 AM   #11
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Your friend got burned due to his CDL.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:32 PM   #12
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Your friend got burned due to his CDL.
It is a felony in most states to over load a motor vehicle if you have an accident. The same as if your blood alcohol is above the limit. It doesn’t make any difference what license you have and it doesn’t make any difference who was at fault. If it had been a traffic stop it would only have been a ticket issued under “administrative” law and he would have had to have a wrecker come and take his trailer home for him.

He was fortunate that neither vehicle had to be towed. That makes a lot of difference and the judge with held adjudication.

It sure mad a gentleman out of him. LOL
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:55 AM   #13
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I have weighed my GM 2500HD diesel shortbed with the extended cab empty and with 3700 lbs. in the bed and only 100 lbs. of the load was carried by the front axle based on weighing the truck empty and loaded at a CAT scale. The COG for the load was directly over the rear axle.

Ford does an excellent job with it two towing guides for its trucks in providing information on the maximum trailer load that can be safely towed. There are also tow packages and heavy load packages that are relatively inexpensive options and worth spending the additional money to get.

Lots of people are towing 5th-wheels up to 13.5K with 3/4 ton diesel trucks with no problems at all. GVWR is largely irrelevant with a trailer. It is the GCWR that is critical as it rates the entire truck (frame, axles, engine, transmission, brakes, etc.) for the maximum load and the calculation takes into account the weakest link.

A Ford super duty truck has an axle rated at 8900 lbs and subtracting the weight of the truck at the rear with no load at around 3000 lbs. that leaves a 5000 plus pound capacity - if the rims and tires and springs could take the load but they cannot. The weakest link is the tires and the cheapest way to fix that is to double the number of tires at the rear axle. Hard on the truck frame but an easy fix for the manufacturers.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:25 AM   #14
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GVWR is largely irrelevant with a trailer.
Not according to the manufacturers. Each of them state in their trailer towing guides, in so many words, that GCWR, GVWR and GAWRs are NOT to be exceeded. The truck has to carry the pin weight of a 5th wheel, and that weight is treated like any other payload weight insofar as GVWR and rear axle GAWR are concerned.

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