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Old 07-11-2017, 10:25 AM   #1
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5th wheel and truck shopping

Looking for advice on buying a 27-30' 5th wheel and then matching it with a truck. My research is showing that some of the lighter style 5th wheels can have a GVWR of less than 9500 lbs. (such as a 27' 2017 Winnebago Voyage Lite 25 RKS which has an 8500 lb GVWR and 820 lb hitch weight). When I look at an F250 to pull it, quite often I see the silver tag showing a GVWR of 10000 lb and 0 payload. If I subtract 500 lbs for extra cargo (passengers, hitch, stuff in the back seat etc.) my match up for GVWR trailer weight will be closer to the 9500 lb range.
My question is am I understnading this right? Will a 5th wheel with GVWR 9500 lb's or less match up with an F250 with the silver tag showing a GVWR rating of 10000 lb's?
My requirements for a truck are that it is a 4x4, F250 and gas. It would be nice to have an XLT package as well. I am yet undecided on Crew Cab vs Extended Cab. I would prefer not to have to get into an F350 due to extra cost.

Thank you,
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:44 AM   #2
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the number that matters is the payload of the truck. Passengers, stuff in truck (and bed) AND hitch (pin) weight all add up. Subtract that total from available payload, it will surprise you. You can easily add 1,000# of stuff to a trailer.

Pin weight should be about 20% of 5ver GVWR, so a 10000 GVWR should have a pin weight of about 2000#. Don't know where Winn gets 800+ lbs pin weight for a 10k trailer.

One other thing, check the real cargo capacity of your 5ver. Find out the axle weight ratings and see how much stuff you can add without busting the axle weight ratings. Some 5vers and TTs have almost no CCC when you work it out.

I towed a 30' 5ver for 17 years with my 1T dodge v10 gas 4x4. It squatted a little in back, I would not have wanted a 3/4t truck.
If you buy a 5ver, replace the inadequate drum brakes with disc brakes for the safety of you and your family.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:12 AM   #3
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>"Will a 5th wheel with GVWR 9500 lb's or less match up with an F250 with the silver tag showing a GVWR rating of 10000 lb's?"

9,500 lbs is typically well within the 'tow rating' of a 3/4 ton truck.
The important thing is what the PIN weight of the trailer does to your payload.

So the important thing... what is the gross payload of the vehicle.
That varies with engine, cab etc.

Need that Gross Payload... then minus the passengers... minus the other stuff the truck carries... minus the 5th wheel PIN weight. If that is still a positive number, you're typically good to go.

Usually a 3/4 ton heavy duty will take a PIN weight of a 5th wheel of... say 12,000 (+-) lbs gross weight. Beyond that you want a 1 ton.

>"8500 lb GVWR and 820 lb hitch weight".

Typically a 5th wheel has about 20% (+-) pin weight.

Unoladed PIN weight of 820 lbs ??? Treat that with 'speculation'.

Typically an unloaded trailer weight 7,000 lbs x .20 = 1,400 pounds !
On the Winnebago page, if you look at the Voyage Light 28' trailer... 20% pin weight, much more reasonable.

So that trailer, fully loaded, should have a 1,600 pound pin weight.
That should still be within the 3/4 ton payload rating.

Looking for 3/4 ton truck with gas engine? IMHO: Ford usually.
Diesel engine is a big up-charge... but IMHO: Worth it.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:20 AM   #4
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Try this app....plug the numbers in and it will givee you a good idea if you are in safe range for towing.

RV Tow Check | Before You Buy RV Calculator
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilightzone View Post
>

9,500 lbs is typically well within the 'tow rating' of a 3/4 ton truck.
The important thing is what the PIN weight of the trailer does to your payload.

So the important thing... what is the gross payload of the vehicle.
That varies with engine, cab etc.
The thing is, what I have been seeing is 0 payload capacity on 4x4 XLT crew cabs and I am having a hard time believing that they couldn't comfortably handle a 9500 GVWR 5th wheel. If it is indeed the case then I will have to look at other possibilities.

The other issue I am facing is trying to shop online and get enough weights and numbers that are useful in calculations. I feel it shouldn't be that complicated and wonder what I may be missing.

I have looked at Ford Towing Guide and they show "towing capacity" for 2017 F250 4x4 Crew Cab w/ 6.2L and 3.73 axle ratio at 12800 lbs. I don't see that possible if the payload is listed as 0 on the silver tag.

I appreciate the comments on a topic that has been covered over and over and yet is still hard to work through! Feeling a bit frustrated by it all, wow!
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #6
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If you are still looking for a TV, perhaps a4.30 gear on the Ford will up towing to 15k?
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:26 PM   #7
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>"The thing is, what I have been seeing is 0 payload capacity on 4x4 XLT crew cabs"

Not sure why they are doing that.
The 10,000 lb thing is a 'magic number' for taxes.

I'll take a look and see what I can find.
Found it. Max Payload F250 4x4 Crew Cab (SWB/10,000lbs) = 3,450 lbs.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/super-dut...dels/f250-xlt/
Select Specifications.
Scroll down on the page...
Down on the page... Maximum Payload Selector.

So, if your trailer is under 12,000 lbs...
and don't max out your payload (unlikely with that combo),
you're good to go.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:53 PM   #8
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Thanks Twilightzone, I just come across those specs as well. That will be helpful going forward. It also looks like it puts the F250 comfortably in the running again.

Larry Mac01, the 4.30 ratio would be the way to go, it also looks like it is hard to find in a good used unit.

Thanks for the input guys!
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fvp923 View Post
Thanks Twilightzone, I just come across those specs as well. That will be helpful going forward. It also looks like it puts the F250 comfortably in the running again.

Larry Mac01, the 4.30 ratio would be the way to go, it also looks like it is hard to find in a good used unit.

Thanks for the input guys!
Ask a dealer to search for one. But yeah, there may be only one used one in the country. Maybe you get lucky.
If you were building, that would be the way.
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:59 PM   #10
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Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

Matching Trucks to Trailers
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:56 PM   #11
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We have one dealer in the Portland area that even orders the 6.2 with 4.30. They understand what you need for towing. I have a new 2017 and it is much better than one with the 3.73.
I think the 10K that you are referencing is the rating for the max weight rating of the truck. It has nothing to do with the weight to be towed. That is a separate spec. The GCWR is the max weight of the truck and the trailer.
Research the label on your drivers door post and become familiar with the weighing process at a CAT scale so you can determine the actual weights. Then you can determine if your TV and trailer are compatible.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:56 PM   #12
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My F250 has the heaviest RV suspension and it is rated to tow a fifth wheel trailer of 13,200 lbs. My problem is kingpin (hitch) weight. I bought a midsize fifth wheel weighing 11k with kingpin weight of just under 2k. I added Airlift 5000 bags even though there was no squat. I am max'd out.

You would be good for 10k travel trailer as you will not need as much hitch capability. That is about as much weight you need to tow with a gas engine.

Most 3/4 ton gas trucks found on dealer lots are white, stripped trucks. Order one to suit your needs with the 4.30 locker gear.
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:12 PM   #13
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Go crew cab. A 350 will cost about $1100 more. No big deal. Lots more capacity. Rougher ride around town unloaded. Lower air pressure in rear tires when not towing to 65.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:35 PM   #14
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how far will you tow?

Are you planning to use this unit for an occasional short trip or are you planning to tow 15,000 miles per year? Buying gas rig makes me think it is for short weekend trips. My rig weighs 18000 lbs and I have towed this combination over 77000 miles with a 2500 dodge (3/4 ton)
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