Community Forums

buster · 03-26-2006, 02:32 PM

Which is better for towing 5th wheels the regular hitch or the Gooseneck and Ball hitch?

buster · 03-26-2006, 02:32 PM

Which is better for towing 5th wheels the regular hitch or the Gooseneck and Ball hitch?

TXiceman · 03-26-2006, 03:06 PM

I personally feel the 5er hitch is the way to go. If you are pulling farm trailers over rough terrian, the Goose neck is better.

One thing to consider is very few 5ers are designed for the additional stresses put on the pin box by a goose neck. Check with your trailer manufacturer (factory, not the dealer).

Ken

RustyJC · 03-27-2006, 03:27 AM

Gooseneck adapters impose a moment (torque) onto the pinbox of a 5th wheel trailer that the engineers never designed the frame to take. These adapters have been responsible for major damage to pinboxes and frames. I would stay as far away from them as you can.

If you need both a gooseneck and 5th wheel hitch with a clean bed when neither is in use, check out the B&W Turnoverball with its companion 5th wheel RV hitch.

Rusty

WD40 · 04-03-2006, 09:39 PM

I don't know how you could have said it any better than RustJ said it. I know a lot of people use them but they were not designed for it and they are harder to hook-up, I think.

John970 · 04-04-2006, 01:55 AM

For Me I'd Go Goose Neck! For what ever it is worth - if anything!!! Below 32' Go Goose, 32~35 - GO with your Gut and above 35 Go PIN.

I went from a 4K/21' loaded weight 5er with a 1 ton Gaser to a 15K/31' 5er, then to a 10.4k/27' w/Slide and a 1 ton Diesel (BIODiesel by the way).

I might agree (on the Frame Issue) if you were going to do only OFF Road where you'd see a lot of Torq & Twist on the Frame (maybe!). For me Goose Neck was better for more than one reason. I'd agree with a 2 way only Pin Mount and Frame stress issues. But I looked at it differently.

After research for me there was nothing but upsides for me to a Goose.

I am not a fan of Bolt-On things, so a Goose(Bolt-On) wasn't something I felt good about(mine was a Welded On VS Bolt Clamp). It still worked out good for me after lots of personal debate. My current 5er had a Goose Neck adapt welded in place.

I found a 5er I liked, but it had a Goose welded in place to/of the Pin. I already had a 20K 4-way pivot Pin hitch, so load was't an issue. The truck I'd bought already had a flip up 2 5/16' ball in place, so I could be flexable. Plus I'd already had the 20K Pin hitch installed for my old 5er.

I made it a point for the Sale. Turns out I got(nearly) retail for my trade-in and bought at nearly wholesale, because of the Goose Neck. My research found that most Pin hitches were 20k or less and nearly all Goose/Ball mounts were rated 25k or more. More/Bigger is better right!!! It is mostly cheaper for a 25+k Ball mount than a 16/20k Pin mount.

Plus I thought about break-downs. If Torq & Twist of Off-Road uses(getting stuck - we all do it) is a major concern - where would it happen? OFF-ROAD(SUPPRISE)! I'm thinking that I could more easiler find a farmer that has a Ball Mount/Goose Neck(Heavy load Rig) than Pin mount to get me out. I see more Pins in the City than Rural areas and more Goose Neck mounts Off-Road than in the City.

Try getting a Tow Truck in a 'BFE' Mountain area with a Pin VS a Farmer with a Goose Neck/Ball heavy loader - Which would be cheaper???

I still think that the swivel of a 'Ball' is more flexible than the Front/Rear Pivot(most cases) of the tipical Pin Hitch.

Help me with the Downside of a Ball Mount if any.

RustyJC · 04-04-2006, 03:57 AM

First, let me welcome you to iRV2.com. We're glad to have you aboard.

Rather than go into the engineering considerations of a gooseneck adapter, let me just suggest that you consider putting a cheater pipe on your 5th wheel pinbox and then yanking it back and forth with every start and stop as well as every road irregularity. That's exactly what a gooseneck adapter does.

There's a reason that a gooseneck trailer has much more steel in the "crown" area than a 5th wheel trailer which is designed to operate with the kingpin in shear - that is, a 5th wheel doesn't impose a torque (a bending force) on its frame like a gooseneck trailer does by design. The result can be (and has been) pinboxes being torn from the frame and welds in the front section of the 5th wheel frame being torn out. Gooseneck hitches are for gooseneck trailers - 5th wheel hitches are for 5th wheel trailers.

If you'd like more reading material, do a search here in iRV2 on "gooseneck adapter".

Rusty

John970 · 04-04-2006, 04:40 AM

Rusty

I agree to some extent with what you are saying when you only take into conciderection Front to Rear (Axcell/Decell) stress. The Goose will lower the center of gravity/effective pivot point on simple start and stop only. Do you think that Manufactures don't build for that? But you don't address side to side torq like driveways, or even turns using a 1 way pivot (Front/Rear) PIN.

What about simple turns -momentum wants the traier to keep going north when I make a turn, even a curve or lane change. What about the side stress??? On a standard hitch either something has to round off or there'd be SLACK to allow for it. Is Slack/Rounding better???

I think that Manu's allow for start/stop (forward/reward) stress, more than side to side stress. What about those Jack Rabbits?

I still feel that the Ball Mount(Goose) is more forgiving than the more fixed/flat surface of a standard Pin hitch.

charliez · 04-04-2006, 04:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know a lot of people use them but they were not designed for it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alot of people also use drugs, and their bodies wern't designed for it. Alot of people drink and drive, which is alos not a good idea. Just because some does it dosen't make it right.

Simply put, the frame of a 5th wheel trailer is not built to be pulled with a gooseneck hitch. Some people have gotten away with it but many more have gotten injured, killed, or at the least, had thier trailer tear away from it's hitch. If you don't mind risking this, or someone elses life, then by all means, use a goosenck hitch on your 5'er. I don't want to have to scrape my rig up off the highway or out of the ditch somewhere, or have to expalin to someones family that thier relativises were killed because I didn't want to have to change hitches when I pulled a diffrent trailer.

RustyJC · 04-04-2006, 04:54 AM

John,

You seem to be operating on the premise that 5th wheel and gooseneck trailer frames are interchangeable. They're not. The forces the 2 respective types of hitches apply to the trailer frames are entirely different.

Had you done the site search for "gooseneck adapter", you would have found where one of our members surveyed a good number of 5th wheel RV manufacturers regarding the use of gooseneck adapters. Almost all (if not all) stated that use of gooseneck adapters would void their structural warranties. One or two manufacturers (IIRC) stated that they would build a gooseneck RV on a special order basis. The point remains, though: A fifth wheel trailer frame is NOT interchangeable with a gooseneck trailer frame.

Rusty

John970 · 04-04-2006, 05:01 AM

charliez,

I've looked high and low for harder pins (the retaining front and rear) for my the front and rear of my Reese Pin mount. I have yet to see ANY hardness Specs (Grade 5 or Grade 8), but fail to see any such ratings - nothing tells me they are anything other more than POT METAL. The same Pins are used on 12k or less hitches as are on 20+k hitch. How can you say or expect them to be better that the frame of my 5er.

Can you honestly say you have SEEN a Goose Neck cause a failure - or is this nothing more that what you THINK would happen???

RustyJC · 04-04-2006, 05:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John970:
Can you honestly say you have SEEN a Goose Neck cause a failure - or is this nothing more that what you THINK would happen??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, if you will do a search on "gooseneck adapter", you will find first-hand accounts by individuals who have had pinbox and/or frame failures. Just click on the "Find" box at the top of each page of the thread and enter your search criteria.

Rusty

charliez · 04-04-2006, 11:58 AM

There are severalmembers here who have had these adapters and have had thier pin box ripped apart, so yes, this has happened to members here. The pins at the base of the hitch have nothng to do with this. It's simple, using a gooseneck adapter is the same as you going up to your 5th wheel and placing a long cheater pipe on the pin, and pulling as hard as you can. better yet, use your truck to pul that cheater bar, because you won't be capable of putting the tourge on the bar that your pin would see with an adapter. it dosen't take an engineer. Just step back and look at it.

TXiceman · 04-04-2006, 12:43 PM

John, I have personally seen two high end trailers with the pin boxes ripped out due to pulling with a goose neck adapter.

Rusty, like me is a mechanical engineer with some 35 years of experience will tell you a GN adapter on a 5er pinbox is a disaster waiting to happen. Look at how a Gn trailer is designe with all of the steel in the neck. Now look at the lack of steel in a 5th wheel pin box. A 5er is not designed for the amount of torqque that is exerted by a GN adpater on a 5er pin.

Some manufacturers will build a special trailer with the reinforced pin box are and supply a GN hitch. Some of the folks that are getting by with a GN adapter are pulling the smaller trailers and/or not pulling very far.

The roads in some part of the country will put so much jerking motion into a hitch it will really make a GN adapter 5er history pretty quickly.

If you want to really see how confident the GN adapter folks are about their product, ask one to give you a plain English warranty that simply states that the use of their GN adapter will in no way damage the trialer pin box and hitch or they will replace the trailer without any questions or fuss. You won't find a taker that will put it in writting and sign it.

Ken