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Old 10-03-2016, 10:48 AM   #1
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5th wheel newbie

Looking to purchase a Cougar 28SGS.
Dry Weight 7561
Capacity 2439
Gooseneck 1410

Dealer said we should look for a vehicle that can handle 10,000 lbs.

Looking at a Ram 1500 2WD, V8 Hemi VVT Engine, 6 Speed Auto with 3.92 Rear Axle Ratio, w/tow package rated for 10,390.

Can this vehicle tow the 28SGS without issues or compromising safety?

2500 is an issue for my wife due to knee surgury. (Getting rid of her is not an option )

Any advice or opinion would be appreciated.

Aries25
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:40 PM   #2
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Simply put you will be over the payload capacity of a 1500 with that 5th wheel. That's a 3/4 ton trailer sorry to say.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:56 PM   #3
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No it won't safely handle that trailer.

There are numerous calculators available that will teach you what to look for when sizing a tow vehicle. Study, don't just ask questions.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries25 View Post
Looking to purchase a Cougar 28SGS.
Dry Weight 7561
Capacity 2439
Gooseneck 1410
Assuming what you're calling "gooseneck" is actually the dry hitch weight (often called "pin" weight), then your dry pin weight is 18.65% of dry trailer weight. That's about right for a 10k 5er. Expect that same percentage to apply as you load the trailer. So if you load the trailer to 10,000 pounds gross, you'll have wet and loaded pin weigh of 1,865 pounds.

Quote:
Dealer said we should look for a vehicle that can handle 10,000 lbs.
Honest dealer, which is rare these days.

Quote:
Looking at a Ram 1500 2WD, V8 Hemi VVT Engine, 6 Speed Auto with 3.92 Rear Axle Ratio, w/tow package rated for 10,390.
The tow rating is misleading. That truck can PULL 10,390 pounds, but because of pin weight it will be overloaded over the payload capacity of the pickup. Tow rating ignores payload capacity, and payload capacity is the limiter for trailer weight on light-duty trucks with single rear wheels (SRW).

Quote:
Can this vehicle tow the 28SGS without issues or compromising safety?
Probably not. Note that 1,865 pin weight. Add another 150 pounds for a good fifth wheel hitch installed, and that's over 2,000 pounds hitch weight. Add the weight of you and family and pets and anything else that will be in the pickup when towing and you're probably well over 2,500 pounds total payload on that poor little half-ton pickup.

Quote:
2500 is an issue for my wife due to knee surgury.
The laws of physics say you must either buy a lot more truck or a lot less trailer. That trailer will overload some three-quarter-ton pickups. Way back when, I had a three-quarter-ton diesel pickup, and it was overloaded when towing my small 5er that grossed less than 8,000 pounds.

Quote:
Any advice or opinion would be appreciated.
Assuming you cannot have a three-quarter-ton pickup, then you need to special order a half-ton pickup that has over 2,000 pounds payload capacity. Then forget about a 5er and look for a travel trailer (TT) with GVWR of not more than 7,000 pounds.

Why? Medium-size 5ers have 17% to 20% pin weight. Most TTs have 12 to 14% tongue weight. So you can tow a heavier TT than 5er when restricted by payload capacity of your truck.

It's a myth that 5ers tow better than TTs. 5ers tow better than TTs only when the 5er has a decent hitch and the TT has a cheap hitch. I've had both 5ers and TTs. My current TT with ProPride hitch tows just as good as my 5er, and has just as good of sway control/prevention.

I don't keep up with GM and Ram, so I'll discuss the Ford F-150. You need one with the heavy duty payload package (HDPP). Dealers don't stock them, so plan on ordering one and waiting a couple of months or more for it to be delivered to your dealer. Order the shortest wheelbase that has the body you want, and order only a trim level that's available with HDPP. Order 4x2 unless 4x4 is absolutely necessary where you live. 4x4 costs you about 400 pounds of payload capacity. If you can live with a SuperCab instead of a CrewCab (SuperCrew), that will save you over 200 pounds of payload capacity.

Be certain you order the Ford factory tow mirrors with your new F-150. Tow mirrors used to be part of the HDPP, but Ford now makes them a separate option.

You will note that lots of old guys still think the sun rises and sets on V8 engines. The Ford 5.0L V8 engine is a very good engine. But much better for towing a 7k trailer is the 3.5L EcoBoost engine. That's the engine in my F-150 towing machine, and it's been great.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:32 PM   #5
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Get a 3500/350. You need at the very least a well equipped 2500/250, and a 3500/350 is often less than $1K more than a 2500/250. Plus it will give you some more room for a larger trailer if you decide in the future that is where you want to go.
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
2500 is an issue for my wife due to knee surgury.
Then compromise. Be sure the new truck has cab steps. Get a 4x2, which is lower to the ground than 4x4s. Then get an F-350 SRW instead of an F-250, as 1bigmess suggested. The F-350 SRW is almost identical to the F-250 except it has 1,500 pounds more payload capacity. With a SuperDuty there are no restrictions as to which bed length and which trim level you can order the way it is with the F-150. So if your wife prefers the very nice interior with all the bells and whistles, you can get King Ranch or Platinum trim on a SuperDuty.

Here is a basic F-350 SRW Platinum from Ford.com build & price. It's a 4x4 because 4x2 is not available with SRW and platinum trim. Power retractable cab steps are standard with Platinum trim, along with lots of other doo dads. But even more options are available if you want to try for an $80k sticker.

Model
$72,080 2017 Ford F-350 Platinum Crew Cab, 8', 6.7L 4 Valve Power Stroke® Diesel V8 (B20) Engine, TorqShift® 6-Speed SelectShift® Automatic w/6.7L, 3.55 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio, 4X4, SRW
$370 5th Wheel/Gooseneck Hitch Prep Package
$1,095 5th Wheel Hitch Kit - 18K
$1,195 Destination Charges
----------------
$75,130 total MSRP
=============

Good buying price is $67,500 plus TT&L.

So yeah, those fancy capable towing machines are not cheap.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:55 AM   #7
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I will give you the actuall "loaded ready to camp" weights of our 16 28SGS in the morning if that will help you.
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:47 AM   #8
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Here are my actuall weights on our 2015 2500HD Silverado. Crew cab 4x4 short bed 6'4" (Duramax)
Truck only, 7/8 fuel, me and hitch,
front 4680 (max axle 5200)
rear 3080 (max axle 6200)
With 5th wheel (28 SGS loaded 3/4 fresh water, tools, all our stuff,, it may vary)
front (steer axle) 4600
rear (drive axle) 4940
So I am looking at a 1860lb PIN weight.
My 20" tires are rated at 3195lbs ea . (truck)
Trailer axles , (rated at 4400lbs ea)
front 3400
rear 3440

Now I carry a decent amout of tools, table, chairs, DEF, case of drinking water, all in the front of the 5vr... Thats why I said weights may vary a bit. I will be adding a 4K genny in the back of the truck at some point, I'm good... This is just to give you a starting point on that paticular 5th wheel...
Monkey

PS,,,, be aware of the cheap tires that come on most all rvs now days... DO NOT exceed 65mph.... less is better... Before our first trip I replaced our D rated china bombs (trailer king) with E rated Maxxis tires... So far after over 4000 miles, I Love them...
Oh ya,,, about your wife with knee surgery,, hope she is doing fine. My DW is 4'11" and the side steps work fine for her to get in and out.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:17 AM   #9
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You are on the right track thinking RAM, but you will need a 2500 or 3500. I wouldn't buy a 150 to tow anything substantial. Good luck.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
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You are on the right track thinking RAM, but you will need a 2500 or 3500. I wouldn't buy a 150 to tow anything substantial. Good luck.
I agree with the 2500/3500 for this size of rv... Being a forever Mopar guy,, it was hard looking at a Chevy,,, but I am Totally happy... Pulls our rv like a dream !!!! Uphill, down hill, side winds,, etc.... And when DW said the truck is more comfy than our class A,,, Home Run !!! Plus plenty of room for our two kids (Danes) in the back of the cab... I removed the seat...
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Old 10-05-2016, 10:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey View Post
Here are my actuall weights on our 2015 2500HD Silverado. Crew cab 4x4 short bed 6'4" (Duramax)
Truck only, 7/8 fuel, me and hitch,
front 4680
rear 3080
---------
7760 GVW
=========

With 5th wheel (28 SGS loaded 3/4 fresh water, tools, all our stuff,, it may vary)
front (steer axle) 4600
rear (drive axle) 4940
-----------
9540 GVW with trailer
7760 GVW without trailer
---------
1780 difference = pin weight
======
Quote:
So I am looking at a 1860lb PIN weight.
I get 1780. The difference is you used only the weight on the rear axle, but you must use GVW to determine pin weight.

Your 5er hitch is mounted so the center of the kingpin is slightly behind the center of the rear axle, thus causing the front axle to be lighter with the trailer than without. That's common for shorty pickups with a 5er hitch, but it's not good. For better handling, you need to move the hitch forward a couple of inches to get the centerline of the kingpin about 2 inches in front of the centerline of the rear axle. Yeah, I know, that means you may have to use a sliding hitch for tight turns, but that's part of the cost of towing a 5er with a shorty bed pickup.

Trailer axles
front 3400
rear 3440
-------------
6840 trailer axles
1780 pin
-----------
8620 gross trailer weight
===========

1780 divided by 8620 = 20.65% pin weight = a bit more than normal for a 9k 5er - probably because of the toolbox and other stuff you haul in the front basement of the 5er. When you add a generator on a cargo carrier plugged into a receiver hitch added to the rear of the trailer, that should get you closer to the 18% average pin weight. (That's how I often haul my Honda 5k generator on the back of my 5er.)
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:45 AM   #12
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The fix for the wife getting in and out of the pickup is the AMP Research Power Steps.
You are stuck at getting a 3/4 or 1 ton to be safe to handle that weight. It's not just getting it going but controlling it and stopping it. Personally I'd go with a diesel, yes you pay a lot more but the benefits out weigh the cost. You will have some type of grade braking or exhaust brake to slow your roll going down hill. You will also get much better MPG's with the diesel than with gas.
If you want to play with the big dawgs then you have become a become a Big Dawg and get one.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries25 View Post
Looking to purchase a Cougar 28SGS.
Dry Weight 7561
Capacity 2439
Gooseneck 1410

Dealer said we should look for a vehicle that can handle 10,000 lbs.

Looking at a Ram 1500 2WD, V8 Hemi VVT Engine, 6 Speed Auto with 3.92 Rear Axle Ratio, w/tow package rated for 10,390.

Can this vehicle tow the 28SGS without issues or compromising safety?

2500 is an issue for my wife due to knee surgury. (Getting rid of her is not an option )

Any advice or opinion would be appreciated.

Aries25

Can I ask why your wife can climb the 4 stairs of the steps to get into the 5er and the three steps to get into the bedroom but can't climb the one running board to get from the ground to the seat of the truck?
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries25 View Post
2500 is an issue for my wife due to knee surgury.
What is it about a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup that causes an issue due to knee surgery?
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