5th wheel towing capacity

[Vulcangw]

Wakamicamper, I ran into the same confusion as you after I purchased my 06 2500HD Duramax 4x4 cc short bed. The trailer tow ratings went all over the place for the different body styles and 2x4 vs. 4x4. My recollection is that the fifth wheel tow rating on my cc 4x4 short bed was 1,600 pounds lower than on a regular cab 4x2 long bed. The curb weights are only 200 or 300 pounds different. So why the much lower tow rating? I researched the web, called GM (where I got some idiot from Iran or somewhere who did nothing but read a computer), talked to several GM truck fleet managers. Bottom line, I gave up trying to figure it out and decided to stick with a couple of basics. One factor I am sticking with, almost, is the GCWR of 22,000 pounds for my truck. The truck weighs right at 7,500 with wife and I, fuel and hitch. That gives me 14,500 of trailer I can tow. Regarding rear axle weight rating, you will notice that the rating of 6,084 is exactly twice the load rating of your tires (3,032 each). Hmm, that is rather interesting. I was told the rear axles are the same on the 2500 and the 3500, and are rated at 6,900. So, I recently replaced my worn out tires with ten ply rated at something like 3,450 each. My rear axle loaded with fifth wheel comes in about about 5,800, so I am within the axle weight rating, but if I load her up and go a little over I am not going to sweat it now that I have those stronger tires.

You may also notice (if your owners manual is like mine in 06) that the owners manual says some models with the Duramax have a fifth wheel GCWR of 23,200 instead of 22,000. Now do tell me (anyone?) why my buddy's super cab short bed 4x4 Duramax has a GCWR that is 1,200 pounds more than my crew cab.

With all that said, do note my post below (which unfortunately no one has responded to as of yet) regarding my truck bouncing excessively over bridge abutments, etc. My prior trailer had virtually the same pin weight, but no bouncing. It may have something to do with overall weight distribution (more in the rear) of this fifth wheel that is 3,000 pounds heavier than the last one. But the input I have received so far says that stronger shocks are the answer. Bottom line - I am close to the rear axle and GCWR limits, but I feel totally secure with the set up (minus the bouncing that I am working on). The truck has more than enough power to pull the trailer, the Allison transmission is a dream come true, the whole setup tracks straight and true, and the trailer brakes work great with the Prodigy controller. Now compare that with the Workhorse chassis Class A I almost purchased. It wanted to wonder all over the road when I test drove it, notwithstanding its steering stabilizer, and boy did that baby lean in a turn. I feel much more secure in my truck and fifth wheel.

[northshoregu]

Might find my answer if I read through other posts here, but am about to purchase a new 5th wheel toy hauler tommorrow & am confused about my vehicle towing capacity. The manual does not give any real guidance on 5th wheel's, except max hitch weight which is 3,000 lb for this vehicle.

The RV dealer says what I am buying is fine, so does the chev dealer, but it would help to have some hard data before I sign on. The dry weight of this 36' rig I am buying is about 11,800, gross about 15,500, hitch weight 2,885. We seldom travel w/ water on board but often full fuel tank and with a H-D bagger (about 800 lb) on board.

Am towing with a 2005 Silverado - 2500HD - Extended Cab - Standard Box - Turbo Diesel ....

Thoughts anyone?

[TXiceman]

northshoregu,

Right off the bat with just some approximate numbers, I think you will be over the rating of your truck. With a 3/4 ton truck, I doubt if you have a 3000# payload capacity for hitch or pin weight (maybe a base model truck, but not one loaded from travel). Get the actual weight on the truck and subtract that from the GVWR of the truck

Next, a trailer with a GVWR of 15,500# will have a loaded pin weight of about 3100#.

Next thing, I would not believe either the Rv sales person/dealer or the truck salesperson. Most of them do not understand tow ratings. HERE is an excellent article by Ken Lenger on towing and explains all of the weights and calculations.

There is bunch of folks towing over with a 3/4 ton truck and find a lot of different methods to justify the use of a 3/4 ton truck. It is up to you to decide, but you do need to know all of the math and ratings.

Good luck,
ken

[northshoregu]

TXiceman,

Thanks for the feedback & link. Looks like there is some good info there. One comment you made ... just want to make sure I understand before I panic since I plan to pick up a new rig in a few days.

In my owners manual under 2500, extended cab, short box, HD (4WD), 6.6L diesel which is my truck it says the following:

Axle ratio 3.73 ~ Maximum trailer weight 12,000 lb. ~ GCWR 22,000 lb. ~ Also, there is a footnote that says "5th wheel gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15-25% of trailer weight up to 3,000 lb. maximum."

I think I understand that with a trailer rating of 2,885 lb. kingpin weight dry I could be overweight pretty quick since there is not much wiggle room ... just wanted to clarify in case you have additional feedback with more info.

Thanks ...

[Ray,IN]

Welcome to irv2.com northshoregru, Using your figures, 11,800# UVW and 2,885# pin weight, this calculates to 24.5% pin weight. Now, using the GVW, which is the proper way to safely match a tow vehicle and trailer, 24.5% of 15,500#GVW = 3,797# pin weight when you load the trailer to its GVW.
Actual experience: I used to own a great Dodge CTD,3/4T, which pulled our 10K GVW trailer fine. Wife wanted a new 5er with a GVW of 15,500#, so we bought one. My beloved Dodge CTD struggled to handle our new 5er, crosswinds, freight truck, and curves, helped the 5er push my truck all over my lane. I bought a Chevy 1T dually and WOW! I was once again happily towing our 2nd home all over America, with no pushing from the trailer under any reasonable condition.
Towing with an undersized truck is NOT pleasant, which is the whole purpose of having fun.

Ken Lenger used to have a Excel spreadsheet that did all the calculations for you, but it's gone away.

That 3,000# maximum pin weight__ that figure is calculated with one 150# driver, no passengers, standard cab, 2x4, 1/2 tank gas, no hitch in bed, no toolbox,etc. Take your truck to a scale and weight it with you,passengers, full gas tank, hitch weight is ~200#, and anything else you plan to put in the truck for camping. Compare that to truck GVW.
I must inform you that in my estimation no 3/4T pickup will safely handle that 5er.

[RustyJC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN Ken Lenger used to have a Excel spreadsheet that did all the calculations for you, but it's gone away.

Ray,

There's a link to Ken Lenger's Excel weight calculation spreadsheet at the bottom of the page that TXiceman linked in his post #17 above.

I have to agree - in the real world, any 3/4 ton (or, for that matter, probably any single rear wheel (SRW)) truck is going to be well over its GVWR with the pin weight of a 15,500 GVWR 5th wheel.

Rusty

[TXiceman]

northshoregu, the dry or brochure pinweight is pretty much a useless number. The manufactures need to put a big * on that number and explain that people seldom use a trailer in it's dry state except to haul it home the first day.

It is up to you to decide how much if any, you want to exceed manufactures ratings. We just want to make sure you have all of the correct information before you jump off the train and take off full steam anhead.

You can pretty much ignore the sales people information, their job is to sell trucks and trailers.

Ken

[northshoregu]

Well, thanks for all the feedback guys. Wasn't my plan, but it looks like I get to buy a new tow vehicle too ... found a new a new 07 36' foot toy hauler & too good of a deal to pass up.

[S. Joy]

I just bought a Forest River Wildcat 5W and now need to purchase a tow vehicle. Absolutely clueless at what I should be looking at... and I need to do my looking online as I am currently overseas. Looks like I've (literally) tons to learn. Can someone point me in the right direction?

[RustyJC]

Seeing that this is your first post, welcome to iRV2.com. We're glad to have you join us.

You'll find just about everything you need to know about matching a towable and tow vehicle in THIS WRITEUP by iRV2.com member Ken Lenger. Notice at the bottom of the page that there's a link to an Excel spreadsheet where you can plug in all the applicable data and have the calculations made for you.

Rusty

[TXiceman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyJC Ray, There's a link to Ken Lenger's Excel weight calculation spreadsheet at the bottom of the page that TXiceman linked in his post #17 above. I have to agree - in the real world, any 3/4 ton (or, for that matter, probably any single rear wheel (SRW)) truck is going to be well over its GVWR with the pin weight of a 15,500 GVWR 5th wheel. Rusty

Look at Ken Lenger's site about towing. It pretty well explains it all in easy to use terms.

The most important item is to educate yourself and never believe the RV dealer or truck dealer for what you can tow. Their job is to seel you a truck or RV, never mind if it right or safe.

Also, glad you found us on iRV2. Be glad to answer any questions.

Ken

[S. Joy]

Why, thank y'all for the kind welcome!

I came here a bit by default... tried to locate a forest river forum ... but I am locked out by the administration of that site because my IP address is in China (and so, btw, am I ... But Hey, Americans in China need RV's too!)

I'm so glad to have found you! Thanks for the great information! Going to try to sort my way thru the links and see if I can learn a thing or two!