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Old 05-17-2006, 01:16 PM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by charliez:
You have 2,500 pounds of pin weight on your 3/4 ton truck? (3/4 ton = 1500 pounds).

Please keep you rig away from my family and freinds. I'd like to keep them alive.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The amount of pin weight a 3/4 ton truck can carry is determined by the truck's GVWR minus the weight of the truck with all of its other cargo and passengers. For example, if a truck's GVWR were 8800# and it weighed 6500# with all its stuff and passengers, then that truck could handle a pin weight of 2300#.

Realize, this is just an example and "jimtoo's" truck may weigh more or less and also may have a different GVWR.

FWIW, direct criticism of another individual for what he's posted is considered 'flaming' and flaming isn't permitted on the iRV2 forums. What we generally do here when we disagree with someone is to criticize the issue, not the individual.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:46 PM   #16
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Just to clear things up, I have a GMC3500 d/a dually crew cab long bed with trailer towing package. I tow a 34' Bighorn 5er and loaded and ready for the road, I gross out at just below 22,000#. I am below my gross weight recommended limits in both in bed capicity and towing capicity.

Don't want none of the weight cops on me for being overloaded.
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Old 05-18-2006, 01:01 PM   #17
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Since I started this post on May 7th, there has been a goodly response, and a lot of good information has been offered. I want to thank each and everyone of you for your time and help. I've tried several of the suggestions, and want to summarize what the results have been.

First, to those who suggested that I was butt heavy, and needed more kingpin weight, were right on! Unfortunately, I was not able to get enough added weight up front via redistribution, so I added some sand bags up front right over the kingpin. Since I couldn't get my wife to sit right over the kingpin on our trip from Denver to Iowa, I decided sandbags might be the better route, and added 480 lbs. right at the kingpin. I sort of guessed at the weight needed, given I knew the weight of the two Harleys I was hauling, and the distance from kingpin to trailer axles, and the mid-distance from trailer axles to the center of the Harleys, which were loaded in the rear of the trailer. The added 480 lbs nearly balanced out the 1640 lbs of the Harley load. What a difference this added kingpin weight made. Nearly all interstate bridges and overpass crossings were made with ease, and with none or very little bounce, at speeds of between 65 and 70 mph. Note, I said nearly all!!!

With this weight distribution and added load, I found that upon crossing the scales, I had a kingpin weight of 2420 lbs, and a gross combination weight of about 21500. The trailer weighed in at 13460 lbs, which is heavier than I wanted, but have accepted it, at least temporarily, until I can find a better solution. When I pull the toys out, my kingpin weight goes up to about 2900 lbs., which as expected, is about the added weight of the sandbags.

At 2900 lbs kingpin weight, unfortunately, I'm now pushing the gross rear axle weight of the 2500HD truck which according to GM is 6100 lbs. But, this will only occur when the toys are removed, which is at a campsite or stationary location. Over the road travel will always be less, in the range of 2400 to 2600 lbs. Rear tires are not a limiting factor since the 265x16 10 plys are rated at 3415 lbs each at 80psi. Of course, with toys loaded and sand on the kingpin, I'm also close to the max gross combination vehicle weight for the truck which is 22,000 lbs.

Now what really irrates me, is that Thor lists this toy hauler with a 4319.5 lb. cargo carrying capacity. True, we have added some things, like having air conditioning installed, a generator, clothes and an overnight bag. But all told, they certainly lie about their weights, or they weigh their golden coach after it's been sealed with helium!!! Also, if Thor would have kicked the rear axles back about 2 or 3 feet, the load would be more over the trailer axles, and the kingpin weight could have been higher without needing to add ballast. In addition, if Thor had installed one of the water tanks under the front berth with provisions to drain and/or store water for weight and balance, at least one wouldn't have to carry dead weight around. I suppose a triple axle would help, but a buddy of mine has a triple axle Weekend Warrior, and it too is butt heavy with toys loaded, i.e. a Harley and an 500cc ATV loaded in the rear.

My solution, which I hope to implement this winter when I'm snowbirding in Arizona, is to move the rear most 50 gallon water tank and plumb it under the front berth. I normally run with the rear water tank empty and don't use it anyway. This way, I can vary the kingpin weight by roughly 400 lbs by simply adding or removing water.

Some of you might say to move one of the Harleys forward, and go sort of tandem versus side-by-side. Could, but my wife wants some reasonable living quarters on overnight stops, i.e. table, place to sit rather than sitting on the steps to the upper berth. My wife would also settle for a new trailer, but at this point, I'm not in the mood, unless I can find a toy hauler that has the above problems solved, and one that can really haul 2000 lbs of toys! If pushed, I'd go with a goose necked horse trailer with living accomadtions, and stuff the Harleys where the horses normally ride. At least most of the cargo weight is over the trailer wheels.

Your suggestions and comments.

Thanks,

Harley Bob
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Old 06-01-2006, 04:52 PM   #18
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If my math is correct, going from 16% to 18% kingpin to trailer weight ratio solved the problem. It looks like all of your numbers are just within range except for the trailer weight. My 2002 manual lists 12,000 lbs as the max trailer weight with a max kingpin weight of 2500 lbs. There's a foot note stating "Fifth wheel hitch rating: weight distributing hitch rating is limited to 12,000 lbs." These limits are the same for the 3500 HD. Does anyone know why this is?
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:09 AM   #19
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Hey harley Bob....

We tow a Weekend Warrior and have had our Harleys in for a long trip. Was a great time and no towing issues from the 5'er. They do make them you just need to do the home work when you start to look for the new one.
What harleys do you have?

Also there is a "Toy Hauler" section her.. come and join us.
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Old 06-21-2006, 04:58 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by charliez:
You have 2,500 pounds of pin weight on your 3/4 ton truck? (3/4 ton = 1500 pounds).

Please keep you rig away from my family and freinds. I'd like to keep them alive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A 3/4 ton truck is rated to carry over 3500 lbs. Please, before you make comments like you did above, do your homework.
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:15 AM   #21
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A 3/4 ton truck (or any light duty truck, for that matter, including a 1-ton dually) is rated to carry its GVWR minus its laden curb weight (LCW) as pin weight. The LCW is the weight of the truck with driver, passengers, cargo, options, accessories, full fuel tank, hitch, etc. - not the fictitious "manufacturer's curb weight" for a base truck with no options and only a 150 lb driver.

Any pin weight greater than GVWR - LCW will put the truck over its GVWR.

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Old 06-21-2006, 05:16 AM   #22
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And carrying 480 pounds of dirt across America is a good idea?
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:40 AM   #23
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
A 3/4 ton truck (or any light duty truck, for that matter, including a 1-ton dually) is rated to carry its GVWR minus its laden curb weight (LCW) as pin weight. The LCW is the weight of the truck with driver, passengers, cargo, options, accessories, full fuel tank, hitch, etc. - not the fictitious "manufacturer's curb weight" for a base truck with no options and only a 150 lb driver.

Any pin weight greater than GVWR - LCW will put the truck over its GVWR.

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually that isn't true. I can go to Chevy's web site for instance and it will give me specifications for different configurations... i.e. type of cab, SRW or DRW, etc. etc... not just a base truck.

Everything else Rusty said is true, but for the new person just learning all of this stuff, it sounds kinda complicated.

Best thing is to go weigh your truck with a full tank of fuel. Then subtract that weight from the GVWR which can be found on your door sticker. You will then have the amount of weight your truck is designed to carry which includes weight of driver, passengers, optional equipment, cargo, fifth wheel hitch, and fifth wheel pin weight... on yeah...and fido and fluffy too :-)

Hope this helps
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:49 AM   #24
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NASCARon:
Actually that isn't true. I can go to Chevy's web site for instance and it will give me specifications for different configurations... i.e. type of cab, SRW or DRW, etc. etc... not just a base truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Related to Chevy's web site data:

1. How many occupants are included?

2. What options are included for each configuration?

3. What allowance is made for owner-installed accessories?

If, in each case, it is a 150 lb driver with no options or accessories, that is a base truck for that particular model (regular, extended or crew cab; SRW or DRW; short bed or long bed).

Rusty
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:47 AM   #25
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NASCARon:
Actually that isn't true. I can go to Chevy's web site for instance and it will give me specifications for different configurations... i.e. type of cab, SRW or DRW, etc. etc... not just a base truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Related to Chevy's web site data:

1. How many occupants are included?

2. What options are included for each configuration?

3. What allowance is made for owner-installed accessories?

If, in each case, it is a 150 lb driver with no options or accessories, that is a base truck for that particular model (regular, extended or crew cab; SRW or DRW; short bed or long bed).

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess your definition of a base truck is different than mine. Mine doesn't include things added on like bigger cabs, DRWs and longer beds. Having said that... have a nice day
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:58 AM   #26
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From the GM Fleet Towing Guide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Note: Maximum trailer ratings are calculated assuming a properly equipped base vehicle plus driver. See the Chevrolet or GMC Trailering Guide for details. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rusty
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