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Old 08-26-2008, 05:25 PM   #15
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The last time I looked, GM 3/4 ton trucks had a max pin weight limit of 3,000lbs. Take away a max of 200lbs for the hitch, you can still have a trailer w/ 2,800 lbs on the hitch. Even the new 3/4 ton trucks are rated to tow over 13,000lbs. And by the way, the percent of total weight that a pin represents is determined by how the unit is loaded.
I traded a '06 3/4 ton diesel for a '08 dually and I'm still not convinced I did the right thing. Is it more stable-absolutely, but the '06 felt like it had twice the torque of the new one.
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Old 08-26-2008, 05:39 PM   #16
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Ed, what you are not seeing is that the maximum pin weight or payload capacity is based on an empty base model truck. Add the accessories, options, cargo and other passengers...you reduce that maximum by several hundred pounds. That is why you need to weigh the truck and find out what your real curb weight is and work from the truck's GVWR. In reality, the maximum is probably closer to 2500# or a little less.

Same story for the maximum trailer tow rating...weigh the truck first.

Ken
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:01 AM   #17
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Weigh the truck with driver, passengers, pets, cargo, accessories, hitch, full fuel tank(s), etc. This is the Laden Curb Weight (LCW) of the truck. It will be substantially higher than the fictitious "manufacturer's curb weight" for the reason Ken described.

With this information as well as the truck's GVWR and GCWR:

Truck's GCWR - Truck's LCW = maximum total weight of loaded trailer

Truck's GVWR - Truck's LCW = maximum pin/hitch weight of loaded trailer

If the 3/4 ton truck had a GVWR of 9200 lbs and an LCW of 7200 lbs, then the maximum pin weight would be 2000 lbs which approximates a 10,000 lb GVWR trailer as was stated earlier.

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Old 08-27-2008, 06:25 AM   #18
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evan0810:
The last time I looked, GM 3/4 ton trucks had a max pin weight limit of 3,000lbs. Take away a max of 200lbs for the hitch, you can still have a trailer w/ 2,800 lbs on the hitch. Even the new 3/4 ton trucks are rated to tow over 13,000lbs. And by the way, the percent of total weight that a pin represents is determined by how the unit is loaded.
I traded a '06 3/4 ton diesel for a '08 dually and I'm still not convinced I did the right thing. Is it more stable-absolutely, but the '06 felt like it had twice the torque of the new one.
Ed </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Technically according to the Gm brochures you are correct. However in real world you are dead wrong. The measurements are taken using a base model truck with no options and a gas motor with 5 gals of gas in the tank and one 150 pound person. Now, add for the diesel motor, the Allison transmission, the up scale cab, the extra cab, the wife, dog, kids, and all the other junk you normally carry and the trucks actual scaled weight ready to camp will be right at 7500 pounds. Subtract that from the 9200 GVWR of the truck and you come up with 1800 pounds of available pin weight. Been there, done that. Hitched ready to camp weight of my truck and trailer were 10,500 truck, 10,350 trailer. And without air bags and bigger tires it sagged a lot. What you did with a dually is go from a seriously overloaded situation to one that is within limits.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:25 PM   #19
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No, actually the ratings include the various engine-transmission combinations. I don't know what a XM radio, electric windows and the like weigh, but I expect it isn't much. My wife weighs 110lbs and all the gear is usually in the trailer. I suppose if you had 2000lbs of stuff in your truck, you couldn't go by the ratings.
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:51 PM   #20
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The only way to know for certain is to weigh the truck as described above and to compare the laden curb weight with the GVWR and GCWR to find the pin weight and total trailer weight that the truck can accommodate without exceeding the ratings. It costs all of $5 or so to weigh the truck and find out just how close one can really come to the manufacturer's ratings.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:20 PM   #21
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payload numbers are figured from GAWRs and in particular RAWR as it carries the load. GAWRs carry the load. A 2500 HD truck with a 6064 RAWR has around 3200 lbs for a payload. Deduct 5er hitch weight/all the folks and junk in the truck leaves about 2400-2500 for a real world pin weight. GVWR doesn't carry weight but is a towing number which can be uprated in many states. My 5ers pin weight is 2200 lbs which leaves me under RAWR by 700 lbs.
The OP wants a 5er with 3-4 slides he will be in 3500 DRW or even 4500/5500 size truck specs as the pin weight will be well over 3000 lbs.
Using uprated GVWR to figure pin weights will have the truck over GAWRs if not careful.

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Old 08-29-2008, 02:28 AM   #22
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Although larger trucks may have a GVWR equal to the sum of the GAWRs, such is not often the case with pickups up to the 1-ton (3500) size. Typically in these trucks, the GVWR is lower than the sum of the GAWRs which provides some flexibility in load placement. Therefore, using the GVWR in the pin weight sizing calculations typically keeps one under the rear axle GAWR, but you're correct - this should certainly be checked after the other calculations have been made.

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Old 08-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #23
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There is lots of mis-information and urban myths floating around the internet and a lot of it is propagated by owners towing more trailer than his truck is rated to tow. While some forums have a lot of passionate owners which are not supported with any fact other than "I pull it fine", meaning no weight data, this forum provides the necessary tools for the RVer to make the decisions based on real world weight numbers.

What it boils down to, is if some one can support his towing decision with real world weight numbers, he deserves to be listened to. Otherwise, in my opinion his answer is based on passion and not fact.

We want to present the RVer with the information such that he or she can make an educated decision and the only way to know is to start by weighing the truck.

But from my 25 years of RVing and towing larger 5ers, you will not find a 3 or 4 slide rig suitable for full time use that a 3/4 ton truck will be able to handle within the ratings of the truck. Manufacturers maximum tow ratings are basically worthless as is the RV manufacturers "Dry weight" or UVW.

My 2002 Ford has a 20,000# GCWR and a 11,500# GVWR. It is a crew cab dually. The truck weights right at 8000# loaded and ready to go with full fuel and hitch. Within ratings I can pull a loaded trailer of 12,000# and a maximum pin weight of 3500#.

Loaded for the road, the 5er he had was 13,500# and 2850# pin weight. I was OK on pin weight, but about 1500# over on GCWR. I made the decision that this was acceptable to me, as the GVWR is more important than GCWR for me. But this decision is not for everyone. The newer F350 DRW's are rated for 23000#.

So I will not tell someone that the truck does fine and to go for it. I would consider this irresponsible of me to make this decision for someone else. We respectfully request that everyone use the same judgment.

Ken
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:07 AM   #24
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We have a Arctic Fox 33-5v and tow it with a 2500 Chevy CC duramax and had no problems in over 30,000 miles of towing. It has a pin weight of 1800 lbs. That is what the specks read. I did weight it once and it weighted 11,500 but not fully loaded. I am sure most of the time it will be over 12000 lbs. I also have a 30 Transfer fuel tank. Not sure if I am over or not. I don't think the Arctic Fox is a full time fiver.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:43 AM   #25
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To all,
I know what everyone is trying to say. I bought the dually because I knew I'd be probably 300-400lbs overweight on the rear axle w/ my new 5th wheel. I'm aggravated because my '06 2500 towed the 11,500 gvwr trailer like it wasn't there and got 14.5mpg while doing it. This 3500 is only rated to tow 600lbs more and doesn't even get 13mpg running solo (less than 5k on truck). I know we are safer, but the new truck doesn't have the power of the '06 duramax, I don't care what they say. I think it is due to the particulate filter that is intended to make diesel exhaust smell like potpourri.I know, an exaggeration.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:08 AM   #26
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The DPF is certainly what is killing the fuel mileage in the new trucks, but I am not sure if that is effecting tow ratings. Others here may know for sure.

My `08 F-450 doesn't pull any better that my `06 F-350, but I am now well within weight limits now; albeit the fuel mileage sucks.

But then this is off topic so I'll end this post now.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:58 AM   #27
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by diandtom:
It has a pin weight of 1800 lbs. That is what the specks read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If the 1,800# is what the specs read, that's dry weight...without any options, not the loaded pin weight.
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:47 AM   #28
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It has already been mentioned by a number of posters but the basic question asked by the O/P seemed to indicate 2 things to me: they wanted a fully equipped and perhaps, even "optioned up" with hydraulic levelling, trailer with multiple slideouts; they also waanted to live in it full time.
Approaching the answer from the trailer side only, would indicate to me, they're looking at a minimum trailer GVWR of over 15,000lbs. Achieving a triple slidout configuration is certainly doable in the 12,500 to 13,500lb area but when you tack on those things the O/P "seemed" to be indicating they needed/desired such as that hydraulic system with it's minimum 4 cylinder jack-leg and perhaps even a couple of stabilizers at the rear, you're instantly talking another 200lbs of your carrying capacity lost to that option alone. Add to that the usual stuff fulltimers carry along and to achieve your "within ratings" target for the trailer alone you are talking about a trailer insulated enough and robust enough to have a carrying capacity of at least a ton within it's stated GVWR which again suggests a trailer well over the 2500/250 series of truck capacity, JMHO.

Real world thinking would suggest to the potential full-timer that he cease throwing money into the 2500/250 in an attempt to mitigate the towing weaknesses and instead start with a clean page and desired/chosen trailer weights and go from there. Not what he wants to hear but I believe it's what he needs to hear and basicly what you are all telling him.
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