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11-12-2010, 06:15 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
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Air bags or Helper springs
I want to get something to help beef up the back suspension to carry more weight and smooth the ride out when traveling. I am leaning toward air bags cause I have heard they are a more smoother ride. But the helper springs look like the can accommodate more weight. And I need to add at least another 3000 lbs for my fver. Wondering if anyone has any info or recommendations. I have a 01 ford f350 drw. Thanks
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1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
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11-12-2010, 07:28 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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It's all according to if you want to install and forget, or air them up and down all the time, it's not a big deal if you have an on board air-compressor, you can get a air-bag kit to add 5,000 lbs,so you need to decide what you want to do because both will do the job, i do think however you could adjust the bags to ride smoother.
Dar
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11-14-2010, 08:26 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 151
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I installed Timbren Aeon springs ( Vehicle Suspension Kits - Timbren Suspension Enhancement Systems) that replace the stock rubber bump stops.. It took about 20 minutes.
You have two options for mounting: 1) about an inch from the top of the axle, and 2) in contact with the axle. I mounted mine in contact with the axle, which permanently stiffened the ride. I actually like the stiff ride, but I will probably remove the spacer that makes the spring contact the axle because the suspension doesn't squat enough to level the trailer front to rear when towing.
I think they're a great solution for about $200 and no maintenance.
__________________
Bill & Deb Karsell
Excel Winslow D28RLW w/ Hydralift and rear camera
2009 Ford F-250 4X4 SRW-SB 6.4L diesel King Ranch Nav & Sync, Pullrite 16K SuperGlide
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11-15-2010, 05:56 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
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I have another question. Would I be able to do both air bags, and helper springs?
__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
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11-15-2010, 09:23 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDubs
I have another question. Would I be able to do both air bags, and helper springs?
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Yes, but doing only one of those things would probably increase your spring capacity to a weight higher than your axle rating.
__________________
Bill & Deb Karsell
Excel Winslow D28RLW w/ Hydralift and rear camera
2009 Ford F-250 4X4 SRW-SB 6.4L diesel King Ranch Nav & Sync, Pullrite 16K SuperGlide
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11-16-2010, 07:03 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas,OR
Posts: 4,584
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Whoa hold up a bit. Why do you need to add 4000 capacity to a 1 ton dually? Makes no sense to me. The dually should be able to handle any fivers pin weight up to a fivers GVWR of about 14,000 pounds. What are you trying to tow????
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Don and Lorri
Resident Dummy.
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11-16-2010, 07:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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I'm with Don. I've towed 5th wheels with GVWRs from 9,100 lbs up through 16,000 lbs with 1-ton duallies and have never had to resort to air bags or supplemental helper springs. What are you towing and what problem are you trying to cure? Squat, harsh ride or mushy damping?
Rusty
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11-16-2010, 02:34 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
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Its a 38 ft keystone raptor. the rating on it is 15500 fully loaded. The trucks GVWR is 13,000 and the GCWR is 21,500. I am new to the fifth wheel side of life and would like to do it as safely as possible. All these numbers are a bit overwhelming.
The GCWR says I can handle it. The GVWR says I can't Im a bit confused.
Rusty my concern is my trucks GVWR is 13,000 the trailer rating is 15,500. I am 2,500 lbs overloaded. I was hoping with the help of airbags or helper springs I could remedy the problem at hand.
Another question I have is what is pin weight, and should I be concerned with it?
__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
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11-16-2010, 03:00 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
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The truck's GVWR is the rated weight of the truck plus any payload. In your case, it's the truck with passengers, cargo, etc. plus the pin weight of the 5th wheel. In other words, the truck isn't carrying the entire 15,500 GVWR of the 5th wheel, but only the 5th wheel's pin weight. For a loaded trailer, the pin weight is typically around 20% of the trailer's weight, so if the 5th wheel were loaded to its 15,500 lb rating, then the pin weight carried by the truck would only be 3,100 lbs. That, plus the weight of the truck and any occupants and cargo, would be what you measure against the truck's 13,000 lb GVWR rating.
The truck's GCWR rating is where the entire weight of the 5th wheel comes into play. The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the maximum allowable combined weight of the loaded truck plus whatever it is towing.
If you take your truck to the scales loaded just like you were headed out camping with the driver, passengers, pets, full fuel tank(s), any cargo and weigh it in that configuration (without the 5th wheel), you'll have the truck's laden curb weight (LCW). With this, you can determine whether or not you're within the GVWR and GCWR according to the following formulas:
Maximum allowable pin weight of loaded 5th wheel = Truck's GVWR (13,000 lbs) - Truck's LCW
Maximum allowable total weight of loaded 5th wheel = Truck's GCWR (21,500 lbs) - Truck's LCW
Just as an example, let's assume your truck's LCW is 8,500 lbs. The equations above would give the following results:
Maximum allowable pin weight of loaded 5th wheel = 13,000 - 8,500 = 4,500 lbs
Maximum allowable total weight of loaded 5th wheel = 21,500 - 8,500 = 13,000 lbs
From the above, it looks like you would be within your truck's GVWR but over your truck's GCWR if the 5th wheel were loaded to it's rated GVWR of 15,500 lbs.
The manufacturer's trailer tow rating is computed as GCWR - truck's published curb weight. Unfortunately, the manufacturer only uses a base truck with a 150 lb driver in determining the published curb weight, so with a 15,500 lb trailer tow rating, he's assuming a curb weight of 21,500 - 15,500 = 6,000 lbs. That's probably unrealistically low, but you won't know until you weigh the truck and get it's actual laden curb weight (LCW).
By the way, adding air bags or helper springs won't change the manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR ratings.
Does this help?
Rusty
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11-16-2010, 03:52 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
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Thank you very much for being so informative Rusty. I think I am finally starting to understand. There is just so much info to take in and so many numbers to crunch for a beginner it can be a bit overwhelming.
Thanks again Rusty.
__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
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