Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2010, 07:15 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
TheDubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
Air bags or Helper springs

I want to get something to help beef up the back suspension to carry more weight and smooth the ride out when traveling. I am leaning toward air bags cause I have heard they are a more smoother ride. But the helper springs look like the can accommodate more weight. And I need to add at least another 3000 lbs for my fver. Wondering if anyone has any info or recommendations. I have a 01 ford f350 drw. Thanks
__________________

__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
TheDubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-12-2010, 08:28 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
It's all according to if you want to install and forget, or air them up and down all the time, it's not a big deal if you have an on board air-compressor, you can get a air-bag kit to add 5,000 lbs,so you need to decide what you want to do because both will do the job, i do think however you could adjust the bags to ride smoother.

Dar
__________________

__________________
1STGENDAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 09:26 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
KTM Guy's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 151
I installed Timbren Aeon springs (Vehicle Suspension Kits - Timbren Suspension Enhancement Systems) that replace the stock rubber bump stops.. It took about 20 minutes.

You have two options for mounting: 1) about an inch from the top of the axle, and 2) in contact with the axle. I mounted mine in contact with the axle, which permanently stiffened the ride. I actually like the stiff ride, but I will probably remove the spacer that makes the spring contact the axle because the suspension doesn't squat enough to level the trailer front to rear when towing.

I think they're a great solution for about $200 and no maintenance.
__________________
Bill & Deb Karsell
Excel Winslow D28RLW w/ Hydralift and rear camera
2009 Ford F-250 4X4 SRW-SB 6.4L diesel King Ranch Nav & Sync, Pullrite 16K SuperGlide
KTM Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010, 06:56 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
TheDubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
I have another question. Would I be able to do both air bags, and helper springs?
__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
TheDubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010, 10:23 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
KTM Guy's Avatar
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDubs View Post
I have another question. Would I be able to do both air bags, and helper springs?
Yes, but doing only one of those things would probably increase your spring capacity to a weight higher than your axle rating.
__________________
Bill & Deb Karsell
Excel Winslow D28RLW w/ Hydralift and rear camera
2009 Ford F-250 4X4 SRW-SB 6.4L diesel King Ranch Nav & Sync, Pullrite 16K SuperGlide
KTM Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
450Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas,OR
Posts: 2,558
Whoa hold up a bit. Why do you need to add 4000 capacity to a 1 ton dually? Makes no sense to me. The dually should be able to handle any fivers pin weight up to a fivers GVWR of about 14,000 pounds. What are you trying to tow????
__________________
Don and Lorri
2007 Dodge 3500 dually
Resident Dummy.
450Donn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 08:15 AM   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
I'm with Don. I've towed 5th wheels with GVWRs from 9,100 lbs up through 16,000 lbs with 1-ton duallies and have never had to resort to air bags or supplemental helper springs. What are you towing and what problem are you trying to cure? Squat, harsh ride or mushy damping?

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 03:34 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
TheDubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
Its a 38 ft keystone raptor. the rating on it is 15500 fully loaded. The trucks GVWR is 13,000 and the GCWR is 21,500. I am new to the fifth wheel side of life and would like to do it as safely as possible. All these numbers are a bit overwhelming.

The GCWR says I can handle it. The GVWR says I can't Im a bit confused.

Rusty my concern is my trucks GVWR is 13,000 the trailer rating is 15,500. I am 2,500 lbs overloaded. I was hoping with the help of airbags or helper springs I could remedy the problem at hand.

Another question I have is what is pin weight, and should I be concerned with it?
__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
TheDubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 04:00 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
The truck's GVWR is the rated weight of the truck plus any payload. In your case, it's the truck with passengers, cargo, etc. plus the pin weight of the 5th wheel. In other words, the truck isn't carrying the entire 15,500 GVWR of the 5th wheel, but only the 5th wheel's pin weight. For a loaded trailer, the pin weight is typically around 20% of the trailer's weight, so if the 5th wheel were loaded to its 15,500 lb rating, then the pin weight carried by the truck would only be 3,100 lbs. That, plus the weight of the truck and any occupants and cargo, would be what you measure against the truck's 13,000 lb GVWR rating.

The truck's GCWR rating is where the entire weight of the 5th wheel comes into play. The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the maximum allowable combined weight of the loaded truck plus whatever it is towing.

If you take your truck to the scales loaded just like you were headed out camping with the driver, passengers, pets, full fuel tank(s), any cargo and weigh it in that configuration (without the 5th wheel), you'll have the truck's laden curb weight (LCW). With this, you can determine whether or not you're within the GVWR and GCWR according to the following formulas:

Maximum allowable pin weight of loaded 5th wheel = Truck's GVWR (13,000 lbs) - Truck's LCW

Maximum allowable total weight of loaded 5th wheel = Truck's GCWR (21,500 lbs) - Truck's LCW

Just as an example, let's assume your truck's LCW is 8,500 lbs. The equations above would give the following results:

Maximum allowable pin weight of loaded 5th wheel = 13,000 - 8,500 = 4,500 lbs

Maximum allowable total weight of loaded 5th wheel = 21,500 - 8,500 = 13,000 lbs

From the above, it looks like you would be within your truck's GVWR but over your truck's GCWR if the 5th wheel were loaded to it's rated GVWR of 15,500 lbs.

The manufacturer's trailer tow rating is computed as GCWR - truck's published curb weight. Unfortunately, the manufacturer only uses a base truck with a 150 lb driver in determining the published curb weight, so with a 15,500 lb trailer tow rating, he's assuming a curb weight of 21,500 - 15,500 = 6,000 lbs. That's probably unrealistically low, but you won't know until you weigh the truck and get it's actual laden curb weight (LCW).

By the way, adding air bags or helper springs won't change the manufacturer's GVWR or GCWR ratings.

Does this help?

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 04:52 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
TheDubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 136
Thank you very much for being so informative Rusty. I think I am finally starting to understand. There is just so much info to take in and so many numbers to crunch for a beginner it can be a bit overwhelming.
Thanks again Rusty.
__________________

__________________
1982 Winnebago Brave 22' ft
Solar powered and running on waste veggie oil (WVO)
Blogging at Not Too Simple
TheDubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DP leveling and air bags? Max Hubrich Class A Motorhome Discussions 15 01-26-2011 08:38 AM
95 Dolphin 535 rear air bags amos1 National RV Owner's Forum 1 08-09-2010 07:29 PM
exploding air bags waco kid Newmar Owner's Forum 5 06-05-2010 04:09 PM
Front air bags loosing air OpaRon Newmar Owner's Forum 9 10-28-2009 06:35 AM
Air Bags Agent Orange Toy Haulers Discussion 12 07-06-2009 05:04 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.