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Old 07-28-2015, 09:32 PM   #1
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Am I overthinking this?

I've never been accused of thinking too much, but this may be the exception. I've been reading all sorts of threads on here about weights and distribution of weight on front axle, rear axle, trailer tongue, weight distribution hitches, etc. and my mind is turning to mush.

Here's the deal:

I drive a 2014 Ford Raptor Supercrew. It has a 6.2L V8 with 411hp and 434lb-ft of torque and weighs 6,200 lbs. I have the factory tow package with brake controller (adjustable). I'd like to tow a Winnebago Minnie 2455 that has a dry weight of 5,230 lbs and a dry hitch weight of 660 lbs. I plan to use a hitch equalizer with sway bars. Common sense tells me that I should have no problems. However, when I enter all the numbers for GVWR, GAWR, etc, the worksheet tells me I can only tow a 2,400 lb trailer!

I don't get it. I plan to have the RV company where I am buying the TT set up the hitch height, equalizer and sway bars. They are a reputable dealer, so I hope they get it right.

Am I missing something here?
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:47 PM   #2
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I am not a trailer guy, but the ford website says you can tow 8000lbs. Supercrew cab.

how are you getting those numbers?

Dan
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpinvidic View Post
how are you getting those numbers?
I used this spreadsheet and used the amounts from the Ford specifications guide.

Travel Trailer Weight Calculator
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:19 PM   #4
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You should look at the door sticker. If your truck weighs 6,200 lbs. there will be a GVWR. (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). This tells you how much weight you can carry. Fuel, People, Dogs, Cats, Firewood, Dirt Bike, Trailer Tongue weight.

I am more in tune with the Ford Super duty trucks. Example a F-250 can weigh a total of 10,000lbs. While a F-350 can weigh 11,500lbs. The Raptor is a special cool truck. Your door sticker will help you.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:31 PM   #5
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The internet tells me the Raptor has a GVWR of just 7,000 lbs. If that is true that is bad news.

You say the truck weighs 6,200lbs. That really means you can not carry very much more weight. A messly 800 lbs. which is tiny. By the time you fill the propane tanks on the trailer and load camping gear you will be overloaded.

Again, check your door sticker and hope the GVWR is higher than 7,000lbs.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:24 PM   #6
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GVWR is 7450 lbs
Curb weight is 6200 lbs

I can carry 1250 lbs.

Is that enough?
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:59 PM   #7
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Here are the full specs for my 2014 Ford F-150 Raptor:


Axle ratio: 4.10
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 7,450 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR): 14,700 lbs
Max loaded trailer weight rating: 8,000 lbs
Max tongue weight rating: 500 lbs
Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR): 3,700 lbs
Base Curb Weight: 6,203 lbs
Rear Axle Base Curb Weight: 2,654 lbs


Travel trailer specs:


Dry trailer weight: 5,320 lbs
Dry tongue weight: 660 lbs
GVWR: 7,000 lbs


It just doesn't make sense to me. My truck is absolutely huge and has plenty of power to spare. I think the reason for the reduced towing capacity is due to the race suspension it has. It's designed for off-road use and compresses much easier than the traditional F-150. However, I can easily add hydro bump-stops to stiffen the ride and possibly increase payload and/or towing capacities.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:13 AM   #8
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Yes some of your statements are true. The Raptor is a special breed with a niche market. It was never intended as a pack mule.
Your GVWR and the associated payload are dtermined by a myriad of tests and trials and relates to the safe and controllable handling characteristics for your truck. You can change this from a purely mechanical standpoint only! No matter what you change or swap in, that will not change your door placard. Some jurisdictions do in fact enforce those placards.

For what it's worth- I have seen many a Raptor with larger 30' TT's tied on. I have even counted 2 with 5th wheels. That doesn't make it right or smart, but it happens.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorTaxman View Post
Here are the full specs for my 2014 Ford F-150 Raptor:


Axle ratio: 4.10
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 7,450 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR): 14,700 lbs This is total combined weight of both vehicles.
Max loaded trailer weight rating: 8,000 lbs

Max tongue weight rating: 500 lbs Your tongue is heavier than this
Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR): 3,700 lbs
Base Curb Weight: 6,203 lbs You can add 1247 lb of cargo (minus tongue weight)
Rear Axle Base Curb Weight: 2,654 lbs


Travel trailer specs:


Dry trailer weight: 5,320 lbs
Dry tongue weight: 660 lbs
GVWR: 7,000 lbs This says your fully loaded trailer can't weigh more than 7K lbs
The only place that you are over is tongue weight.
Maybe load heavy stuff behind the trailer axle to reduce tongue weight
Everything else is OK.
The green values meet spec.

Maybe need to add air springs to level out the truck.

Dan
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:44 AM   #10
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Please don't put weight behind a TT'S axles to lower tongue weight... you have to be very care when loading any TT to avoid getting too light on the tongue weight. This will cause sway and make the trailer very unstable.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:20 AM   #11
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Do it only if the math works to meet the specs of your truck. As previously stated, just because other Raptor's are pulling overloaded does not make it safe or right to do. Good luck.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpinvidic View Post
The only place that you are over is tongue weight. Maybe need to add air springs to level out the truck.
I read the towing manual that came with the truck and under "Hitch Receiver Weight Capacities" it states:

Weight-carrying max tongue load: 500 lbs
Weight-distributing max tongue load: 1,130 lbs

I think I'll be OK if I use a WD hitch with sway bars. Passengers include my wife, daughter, a very large dog and me. Total weight is about 500 lbs. We travel very light and don't usually carry a lot of gear in the truck, maybe 100 lbs. I don't plan on loading the TT with much, maybe an additional 200-300 lbs over the dry weight. I plan on towing it with empty tanks.

Most of our camping trips will be short distances of less than 300 miles from home. On occasion, we may drive to Florida (700+ miles), but I don't anticipate doing that often.

I'm on Ford Raptor forum and there are folks on there that tow a similar setup and have never had any issues. The total weight of both the tow vehicle and TT certainly won't exceed the 14,700 lbs that's on the door. I may get some compressed air bump stops for the rear to prevent any frame contact, but I think I should be fine.

Thanks for the comments.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorTaxman View Post
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 7,450 lbs
There's your answer. Your very special (and expensive) pickup was made for hauling ass, over rough roads such as the Baja Road Race, not for hauling the hitch weight of a decent-size travel trailer. So your payload capacity is fine for hauling a couple of folks and your dog, but not for dragging a trailer with normal hitch weight.

Quote:
Weight-distributing max tongue load: 1,130 lbs
That's the hitch rating, not the truck rating. You cannot tow a trailer with anywhere near 1.130 pounds hitch weight without exceeding the GVWR of your truck.

Quote:
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR): 14,700 lbs
Max loaded trailer weight rating: 8,000 lbs
There's the confusing part. The GCWR and tow rating tell you how much weight you can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic when climbing hills and mountain passes. But it ignores the payload capacity of the truck, so it ignores the amount of weight you can HAUL in the truck without overloading the suspension.

So if you can find a trailer with no hitch weight, then you can pull one of those that grosses up to 8,000 pounds without being overloaded. Yes, they make trailers with only a few pounds of hitch weight - such as a farmer's "wagon style" cotton trailer or grain trailer. Also most semi-trucks with two or three trailers include wagon-style trailers as the second or third trailer. But I've never seen a wagon style RV trailer.

Quote:
It just doesn't make sense to me. My truck is absolutely huge and has plenty of power to spare. .
Yes, you have plenty of power (and torque) to pull a heavy TT, But your suspension is not designed for hauling the hitch weight of a heavy trailer.

Inside your driver's door frame, there is a sticker that gives you the payload capacity of your truck. Subtract the weight of people, pets, tools, weight-distributing hitch, campfire wood, and anything else you haul such as a spray-in bedliner, jack(s), tounneau cover or camper shell. and the answer is the max hitch weight you can haul without being overloaded.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:41 AM   #14
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Yeah, I think I get it now. It finally clicked after reading it over and over. From reading through spec sheets of other F-150 (non-Raptor) trucks, the culprit here is the rear suspension. I have learned that there is an after-market company that has created for the Raptor, a rear bump stop kit that reinforces the rear frame and has integrated Fox bump stops (mini-shocks) that increases the payload of the Raptor to 2600 lbs. Obviously, the door sticker is what it is. However, the engineering behind this kit is good and it's from a reputable company.


I may just do that. We won't be towing quite as much as we will be off-roading. We go to the beach and mountains a lot and do quite a bit of off-roading with the Raptor, so I'd rather keep it as the tow vehicle and modify it to make sure it will be capable of towing our TT safely and securely.
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