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Old 01-09-2012, 11:25 PM   #1
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Another newbie towing question

I plan to purchase a 35' Fuzion Toy Hauler (dual axle) in the near future. Here's the weight specs:
Hitch Weight 2,850 lbs
Dry Weight 12,045 lbs
Cargo Weight 4,455 lbs

Was wanting the GMC 2500HD/Duramax, but according to the brochure it won't handle the weight.

Soooo - looking at the 3500HD (Denali) SRW. The stats show it should be OK
Maximum Trailering w/5th wheel or gooseneck 16,800

HOWEVER - I really don't want to go the dually route, but looks like probably I need to.

Any thoughts/things I've missed, guys?
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:54 AM   #2
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The dual wheels will provide a much more stable platform when you are traveling in wind. I'd go for the biggest truck I could afford.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:11 AM   #3
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OP, I wouldn't depend on the factory figures on the trailer, they are usually low. Even if they are correct you'll be right at the max and that's not good.

Is this a TT or 5th wheel?
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:37 AM   #4
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It is a 5th wheel. Can't argue with any comments made. I simply wanted to have not so large a truck, but I see where the 3500 DRW makes the most sense.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfeather View Post
I plan to purchase a 35' Fuzion Toy Hauler (dual axle) in the near future. Here's the weight specs:
Hitch Weight 2,850 lbs
Dry Weight 12,045 lbs
Cargo Weight 4,455 lbs
Ignore the dry weights. Compute your probable wet and loaded hitch weight, then buy enough truck to handle the GVWR as well as the hitch weight of the trailer.

12,045 + 4,455 = 16,500 GVWR of the trailer. 18 percent wet and loaded hitch weight = 2,970 realistic wet and loaded hitch weight. But 20 percent hitch weight is also common for trailers that size, and that's 3,300 pounds.

Quote:
Was wanting the GMC 2500HD/Duramax, but according to the brochure it won't handle the weight.
I don't know about GM, so I'll use 2012 Ford numbers that I know about. Assuming CrewCab 4x4 diesel.

16,500 wet and loaded trailer weight plus 8,500 wet and loaded SRW pickup weight = 25,000 minimum GCWR needed for lightly loaded truck. The dually is about 500 pounds heavier, so you need a GCWR of at least 25,500. So go for 26,000 GCWR in case you load the tow vehicle heavier than "lightly loaded".

8,500 wet and loaded SRW truck plus 3,300 hitch weight = 11,800 GVWR needed

F-250 diesel has a GCWR of 23,500 and a GVWR of 10,000. Not enough truck for your load.

F-350 SRW has GCWR of 23,500 and GVWR of 11,500. Still not enough truck for your load.

F-350 DRW has GCWR of 30,000 and GVWR of 13,300, and it will weigh about 9,000 lightly loaded. Now we're talking! Plenty of GCWR (and tow rating) to drag a trailer with over 16,500 GVWR. Enough GVWR that you could load the tow vehicle up to 10,000 pounds GVW without being overloaded. (10,000 pounds wet and loaded weight for the F-350 Dooley CrewCab 4x4 diesel ready to tie onto a 5er for a long trip is not unusual. In fact, it's quite common.)

GM and Dodge weight ratings are competitive with Ford's, so yes, you definitely need a Dooley.

The F-350 DRW with 30,000 GCWR will probably be enough, but if you want more wiggle room in the fudge factor so you can fly over the steepest mountain passes, go for the F-450 pickup which has 33,000 GCWR.

Quote:
Soooo - looking at the 3500HD (Denali) SRW. The stats show it should be OK
Maximum Trailering w/5th wheel or gooseneck 16,800
They lie. Just like Ford and Dodge does. The tow ratings assume there are no options on the truck, and nothing in the truck but a skinny driver. Weigh the wet and loaded truck with driver, passenger(s), pet(s), tools, floor jack, 5er hitch, then subtract that weight from the GCWR of the truck to get your actual tow rating. You'll find the actual tow rating is a lot less that the manufacturers claim.

Plus the tow ratings assume that your truck has enough hitch weight capacity to handle the weight of a trailer with the weight of the tow rating. It doesn't. On an SRW pickup, GVWR and therefore hitch weight is your limiter, not the GCWR used to compute the tow ratings. And even on some duallys, hitch weight is your limiter.

Quote:
HOWEVER - I really don't want to go the dually route, but looks like probably I need to.
If you don't want to be overloaded with that trailer, then you need a Dooley to tow it. And not just any Dooley. The older "one ton duallys" had GCWR less than 25,000 pounds, so they won't be enough truck for your wet and loaded trailer.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:27 AM   #6
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Smokey is spot on in his response. I don't know why manufacturers even publish the dry weight. It is a totally useless number. Once you take the rig home and put a box of plastic knives/forks/spoons in it, that number it out the window.

It is wise to use the GVWR of the trailer and then figure on 20% of GVWR as the pin weight.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #7
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Starting to make sense. I appreciate the help. I'll definitely look at the GVCR and GVWR before I purchase. Thanks again for the help, guys.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:46 PM   #8
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Here's the stats - think this'll work?

Here's the "Published Stats"

Wet T Hauler - 16500 Hitch Weight (20%) aprx 3,300

3500 DRW GVWR 13,000
Max Payload (driver+cargo) 5703
Max Trailering (5th wheel) 22,300
Rear Axle/Spring Capacity 9375
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfeather View Post
Here's the "Published Stats"

Wet T Hauler - 16500 Hitch Weight (20%) aprx 3,300

3500 DRW GVWR 13,000
Max Payload (driver+cargo) 5703
The max payload number, like the tow rating number, is overstated. In order for a truck with 13,000 GVWR to have a payload of 5703, the wet and loaded truck would have to weigh only 7,297. You can bet that truck when wet and loaded for the road will weigh a lot more than 7,297. If it's a CrewCab 4x4 diesel, then including driver, passsenger(s), tools and other "stuff", it will probably weigh around 8,500 to 9,000 pounds, same as the Ford.

Quote:
Max Trailering (5th wheel) 22,300
I assume that's the tow rating. If so, and they are consistent in using 7,297 as the wet and loaded truck weight, then they added 203 pounds for the 5er hitch, and the GCWR is 30,000 pounds.

Quote:
Rear Axle/Spring Capacity 9375
Useless information. If you don't exceed the GVWR of the truck, then you won't exceed any of the other weight ratings such as front and rear axles, suspension, tires, wheels, frame, etc.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #10
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Reply to SmokeyWren

SmokeyWren -
I get that you have quite a broad base of knowledge on this subject, and I do appreciate that you've taken the time to evaluate my postulated idea, and provided both thoughtful comments and opinions.
However, based on your comments, I can not determine if you are suggesting that this is an ill-advised path I am on - or not. And then there's also the possibility that you're doing neither, but simply commenting and purposefully being non-committal.
I may be simply missing your point(s). It almost sounds as if you're suggesting that this is a vain pursuit. Is that it, or.....something else?
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfeather View Post
However, based on your comments, I can not determine if you are suggesting that this is an ill-advised path I am on - or not.
If you are trying to rationalize towing that trailer with an SRW pickup, that's an ill-advised path. If you recognize you need a dually for that trailer, then that's the right decision. But not all duallys are created equal, so you have to get into the numbers at least a little to be sure you have enough truck for the trailer you want to tow without being overloaded.

The numbers are complicated, and the manufacturers don't make it easy to understand. The end result you want is to drive the wet and loaded rig onto a CAT scale and not be overloaded over any of the weight ratings of your rig.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:10 AM   #12
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Bottom line is included in my earlier posts, but perhaps not clear enough.

For a trailer that can weigh up to 16,500 pounds, and assuming you want a CrewCab 4x4 diesel to tow it with, then you need a tow vehicle with a GCWR of at least 26,000 pounds and a GVWR of at least 13,000 pounds. And even that might not be enough if you haul a lot of weight in the truck other than one passenger and normal toolbox full of tools.

Using Ford as an example, the 2009 and 2010 F-350 DRW diesel wasn't enough truck because it had only 23,500 GCWR stock. Ford sold one with an optional "Tow Boss" pkg that had 4.30 axle ratio and 26,000 GCWR, but they are not common. All 2011-up Ford dually have a GCWR of 29,000 or 30,000 pounds, so it will be "enuff truck" for your trailer. GM and Dodge make competitive products, but you must delv into th specs to be sure the one you want will be enuff truck.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #13
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You are in dually country with a 5th wheel that big.

Here's your actual tow capacity....GCWR minus the weight of the truck when ready to tow.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:03 PM   #14
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Decision Made

I will be going with the 1 ton dually. I want everyone to know how much you and your comments are appreciated. You are a tremendous community.

My sincerest thanks to everyone!!
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