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Old 06-09-2014, 06:45 PM   #1
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Another Tow Question Fuzion 5th Wheel

So...
I started with a Dodge 1/2 Hemi and a Fuzion 260 26' bumper pull. Fuzion litature and dealer stated no problem. NOT! I would pull it but where I live Colorado it only did it in lower gears and high RPM creating 5MPG in the mountains. I traded for a Dodge 3500 diesel that would pull almost anything. It was sooooo rough I traded for a Dodge diesel 2500. I love it. Now the issue. I am looking at a new Fuzion 5th wheel 325 with weight around 12,500. After all my trading I certainly cannot trade again so I must live with the 2500. Will it easily pull a 12,500 toy hauler in the Colorado mountains or will it be straining. I do not want to get in that mess again and based on the forum response i will make a decision.

Thanks so much,
Don
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:04 PM   #2
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What year 2500 is it and what rear gears does it have?
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:08 PM   #3
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You'll probably be overloaded.

So options are be overloaded and ride smooth. Or ride rough, and be very stable.
Can't have both.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:16 PM   #4
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It will pull it. Once hooked up, get weighed and see where you are on rear axle weight and gross combined weight.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Monaco View Post
I am looking at a new Fuzion 5th wheel 325 with weight around 12,500.
We cannot help you if you insist on telling us little white lies. The specs for the 2015 Fusion 325 are not yet published, but looking at the 2014 310 and the 2013 315, the GVWR of the 2015 Fusion 325 is probably at least 16,500. So you can expect the wet and loaded weight of your toy hauler will be over 16,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the playground. Dry hitch weight is 23% of dry trailer weight, so you can expect at least 20% pin weight when wet and loaded with toys, or 3,200 pounds wet and loaded pin weight.

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After all my trading I certainly cannot trade again so I must live with the 2500. Will it easily pull a 12,500 toy hauler in the Colorado mountains or will it be straining.
12,500 toy hauler, maybe. But you don't have a 12,500 toy hauler. You have a 16,500 toy hauler. Your 2500 will struggle to pull that trailer over the passes, but that's not the problem. The problem is your truck will be severly overloaded over the GVWR of the Ram.

2014 Ram 2500 diesel crewcab with 8' bed, automagic tranny and 4x2 drivetrain has a max payload of 2,488 and a max tow rating of 17,300. Realistic max pin weight is about 2,000 pounds without exceeding the GVWR of the Ram, but the pin weight on your Fusion will be closer to 3,200 pounds. Severely overloaded. You shudda kept the dually.

The max trailer weight is about the 16,000 for your wet and loaded Fusion before you exceed the GCWR of the diesel RAM, so power and torque for climbing the passes won't be a big problem. But your SRW pickup will be severely overloaded over the weight capacity of the suspension and brakes of the Ram.

If you don't exceed the GCWR of the Ram, then you should have no problems towing to the top of the pass, but you will be loaded right up against the max, so don't plan on winning any races. Again, that's not your problem. Your problem is you don't have nearly enough payload capacity to haul the pin weight of a 16,000 pound toy hauler.
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:59 AM   #6
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Just don't overload your rear axles.
Smooth ride is not the right option but learning to make do will be in your favor.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:18 AM   #7
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confused about weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
We cannot help you if you insist on telling us little white lies. The specs for the 2015 Fusion 325 are not yet published, but looking at the 2014 310 and the 2013 315, the GVWR of the 2015 Fusion 325 is probably at least 16,500. So you can expect the wet and loaded weight of your toy hauler will be over 16,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the playground. Dry hitch weight is 23% of dry trailer weight, so you can expect at least 20% pin weight when wet and loaded with toys, or 3,200 pounds wet and loaded pin weight.



12,500 toy hauler, maybe. But you don't have a 12,500 toy hauler. You have a 16,500 toy hauler. Your 2500 will struggle to pull that trailer over the passes, but that's not the problem. The problem is your truck will be severly overloaded over the GVWR of the Ram.

2014 Ram 2500 diesel crewcab with 8' bed, automagic tranny and 4x2 drivetrain has a max payload of 2,488 and a max tow rating of 17,300. Realistic max pin weight is about 2,000 pounds without exceeding the GVWR of the Ram, but the pin weight on your Fusion will be closer to 3,200 pounds. Severely overloaded. You shudda kept the dually.

The max trailer weight is about the 16,000 for your wet and loaded Fusion before you exceed the GCWR of the diesel RAM, so power and torque for climbing the passes won't be a big problem. But your SRW pickup will be severely overloaded over the weight capacity of the suspension and brakes of the Ram.

If you don't exceed the GCWR of the Ram, then you should have no problems towing to the top of the pass, but you will be loaded right up against the max, so don't plan on winning any races. Again, that's not your problem. Your problem is you don't have nearly enough payload capacity to haul the pin weight of a 16,000 pound toy hauler.

WOW lots of detailed information. FYI: Not a little white lie I guess I don't get the weight. I am looking at Fuzions lititature and yes the 325 does not have published stats yet but what I see is the 310 is 12,004 lbs and the 331 is 12,773 lbs. That is how I guessed at 12,500. Does Fuzion not publish real numbers? Or are you considering 4000 lbs of additional carring weight? It is looking like I cannot tow the Fuzion 325. FYI my truck is 4X4 crew cab LWB . This too could be bad. Gears are 373. I could not find that anywhere not even on the window sticker and had to call the dealer. I guess they are correct. Anyway I am not feeling good about pulling it.

Thanks,
Don
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #8
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Don, you are looking at dry weights. Unless you will always pull the trailer 100% empty, that weight is useless.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:08 PM   #9
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I am finally starting to get it. Empty weight vs Gross weight. Da! Fuzion310 hitch weight 2870 lbs. That is 770 lbs over my Dodge as it is and the Fuzion 325 will be a little more.
below off Dodge web site

"6.7 DIESEL CUMMINS - ETK 6-SPEED AUTOMATIC - DG7 XBS 3.42 10,000 GVWR 2,100 payload 7,902 4,947 2,955 6,000 6,500 25,000 GCWR 150 20 16,930 max trailer weight

I am ok on total trailer weight but I am coming up short on payload. I am very disappointed for I really liked the Fuzion 325. I was very close to a deal. Thanks for all the help.

Don
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:43 PM   #10
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Also, those "pin weights" are probably based off empty weight also.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:10 AM   #11
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lesson learned

One thing interesting is my first question to the dealer was “will my truck pull this” and was told no problem! More lessons learned.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:07 AM   #12
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Does Fuzion not publish real numbers?
The numbers are real, but you have to understand what they mean. The "weight" they publish is the dry weight or shipping weight of the new but empty trailer. Your empty trailer will probably weigh more than that before you begin loading up with toys and camping stuff. But then you are going to load a lot of toys and camping stuff in the trailer, so it's going to weigh a lot more than the shipping weight by the time you get on the road.

Hitch weight is your problem with a pickup that has single rear wheels (SRW). Ignore the hitch weight in the trailer specs (that's dry hitch weight) and estimate the wet and loaded hitch weight as 20% of the GVWR of the trailer.

The GVWR is the real number you need. Use the GVWR of the trailer to match tow vehicle to trailer. Yes, you will probably load the trailer to close to the GVWR when on a trip to the playground. Water for flushing the pottie, fuel in the tank for refueling the toys, pots and pans and dishes, clothes, tools, jacks, etc. You will continue to add weight to the trailer as you get more experience with camping in/near the playground. By the middle of the third RV trip, you'll probably be getting close to your normal wet and loaded trailer weight.

If the GVWR says TBD (to be determined), then you can estimate it by adding the shipping weight to the cargo carrying capacity. That's how I know that your trailer probably has a GVWR of 16,500, even though Keystone hasn't published that spec yet.

If you try to determine the wet and loaded weight of the trailer and the wet and loaded hitch weight by starting with the shipping weight then estimating the weight of toys and stuff you will load, you'll invariably under-estimate the added weight. The CAT scale knows for sure, so stop at a truck stop that has a CAT scale and weigh the wet and loaded rig in the middle of every camping trip. Add the weights on the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and compare that total to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. That's when you discover that your pickup with SRW cannot haul the hitch weight of a 5er that grosses over 12,000 about pounds without being overloaded.

The CAT scale will not tell you the GVW of the trailer, but that's not important. If you don't exceed the combined GAWR of the trailer axles, and you don't exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle, then you'll probably not exceed any other of the weight ratings.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:44 PM   #13
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And the saga continues

Smokey you know this stuff so well what do you think about this:

The Fuzion dealer called and asked what I was going to do and I said I have to pass due to hitch weight was too. I was at first advised I would not have a problem -that tells me a lot about the dealer - but then he said I could install air bags and have 3500-5000lb cargo weight. I thought I would go to an expert. Is this safe. I was told 1,000.00 for air ride installed with auto pump. Can you please comment.

Thanks,
Don



Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
The numbers are real, but you have to understand what they mean. The "weight" they publish is the dry weight or shipping weight of the new but empty trailer. Your empty trailer will probably weigh more than that before you begin loading up with toys and camping stuff. But then you are going to load a lot of toys and camping stuff in the trailer, so it's going to weigh a lot more than the shipping weight by the time you get on the road.

Hitch weight is your problem with a pickup that has single rear wheels (SRW). Ignore the hitch weight in the trailer specs (that's dry hitch weight) and estimate the wet and loaded hitch weight as 20% of the GVWR of the trailer.

The GVWR is the real number you need. Use the GVWR of the trailer to match tow vehicle to trailer. Yes, you will probably load the trailer to close to the GVWR when on a trip to the playground. Water for flushing the pottie, fuel in the tank for refueling the toys, pots and pans and dishes, clothes, tools, jacks, etc. You will continue to add weight to the trailer as you get more experience with camping in/near the playground. By the middle of the third RV trip, you'll probably be getting close to your normal wet and loaded trailer weight.

If the GVWR says TBD (to be determined), then you can estimate it by adding the shipping weight to the cargo carrying capacity. That's how I know that your trailer probably has a GVWR of 16,500, even though Keystone hasn't published that spec yet.

If you try to determine the wet and loaded weight of the trailer and the wet and loaded hitch weight by starting with the shipping weight then estimating the weight of toys and stuff you will load, you'll invariably under-estimate the added weight. The CAT scale knows for sure, so stop at a truck stop that has a CAT scale and weigh the wet and loaded rig in the middle of every camping trip. Add the weights on the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and compare that total to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. That's when you discover that your pickup with SRW cannot haul the hitch weight of a 5er that grosses over 12,000 about pounds without being overloaded.

The CAT scale will not tell you the GVW of the trailer, but that's not important. If you don't exceed the combined GAWR of the trailer axles, and you don't exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle, then you'll probably not exceed any other of the weight ratings.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:48 PM   #14
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Smokey you know this stuff so well what do you think about this:

The Fuzion dealer called and asked what I was going to do and I said I have to pass due to hitch weight was too. I was at first advised I would not have a problem -that tells me a lot about the dealer - but then he said I could install air bags and have 3500-5000lb cargo weight. I thought I would go to an expert. Is this safe. I was told 1,000.00 for air ride installed with auto pump. Can you please comment.

Thanks,
Don

Run away from that lying dealer. Air bags level you out, they do NOT add capacity.

If he will risk you and your family safety to make a sale, tell him to pound sand.
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