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Old 10-11-2005, 04:36 PM   #1
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Folks, I know this subject has been gone over a 1000 times but now with gas prices at $3 plus I'm rethinking my vehicle upgrade plans.

I'd like to revisit the V10/PSD comparisons.

If you are towing with a F250 with either or these two engines I'd like to ask you to answer a few questions about your F250 and towing experiences:

1. What engine do you have?
2. Transmission?
3. Axle ratio?
4. 4x4 or 4x2?
5. What weight RV are you towing?
6. What is your towing "gas" mileage and at what speed do you obtain that mileage.
7. What is your gas mileage while not towing and what speed is your non towing traveling done. (around town, freeway etc)

I currently tow a 6000lb trailer with a F150 5.4V8. Generally, the F150 tows just fine with gas mileage of 11-12MPG/50MPH, 9-11MPG/60MPH and 8-9MPG/70 while traveling at or near sea level. CGVW of the F150 and Trailer is 12,930lb (14,000Lb) as weighed last week on my trip from CO to MA.

However, living in CO most of my trips are into the mountains. Most of this travel is above 9000ft with pass elevations reaching 11000ft. Climbing the passes is a low gear, 40MPH event. The truck does just fine but is obviously working. Traveling in the mountains 8-10000ft is a combination of up and downshifting. While I'm satisfied with the F150, I'd like a bit more reserve power up in the mountains, especially now that I see how much more power I have available while traveling at sea level, which is a relatively rare event.

I'm pretty well convinced that the F250 PSD would be an excellent choice, as well as offering me the option to upgrade my trailer to a larger rig. But the V10 seems to offer the same benefits at approx $5000 less cost. I can't justify the cost of a replacement tow vehicle based on simple economics and nor do I want to. The cost of gas gets all our collective attentions, watching the gas gage actually decline before our eyes and the MPG meter sitting bouncing around 8MPG constantly nags at me to rethink my tow truck upgrade options. Must be a "guy" thing... If a V10 or PSD will tow with the same gas mileage as my F150 but at the same time offer the ability to tow at freeway speeds up and down the mountains then the extra cost is worth it to me. It's the finer distinctions between these engines that currently elude me...

Thanks for reading my post.... Any advice, based on personal experience, would be appreciated.

Jerry K
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Old 10-11-2005, 04:36 PM   #2
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Folks, I know this subject has been gone over a 1000 times but now with gas prices at $3 plus I'm rethinking my vehicle upgrade plans.

I'd like to revisit the V10/PSD comparisons.

If you are towing with a F250 with either or these two engines I'd like to ask you to answer a few questions about your F250 and towing experiences:

1. What engine do you have?
2. Transmission?
3. Axle ratio?
4. 4x4 or 4x2?
5. What weight RV are you towing?
6. What is your towing "gas" mileage and at what speed do you obtain that mileage.
7. What is your gas mileage while not towing and what speed is your non towing traveling done. (around town, freeway etc)

I currently tow a 6000lb trailer with a F150 5.4V8. Generally, the F150 tows just fine with gas mileage of 11-12MPG/50MPH, 9-11MPG/60MPH and 8-9MPG/70 while traveling at or near sea level. CGVW of the F150 and Trailer is 12,930lb (14,000Lb) as weighed last week on my trip from CO to MA.

However, living in CO most of my trips are into the mountains. Most of this travel is above 9000ft with pass elevations reaching 11000ft. Climbing the passes is a low gear, 40MPH event. The truck does just fine but is obviously working. Traveling in the mountains 8-10000ft is a combination of up and downshifting. While I'm satisfied with the F150, I'd like a bit more reserve power up in the mountains, especially now that I see how much more power I have available while traveling at sea level, which is a relatively rare event.

I'm pretty well convinced that the F250 PSD would be an excellent choice, as well as offering me the option to upgrade my trailer to a larger rig. But the V10 seems to offer the same benefits at approx $5000 less cost. I can't justify the cost of a replacement tow vehicle based on simple economics and nor do I want to. The cost of gas gets all our collective attentions, watching the gas gage actually decline before our eyes and the MPG meter sitting bouncing around 8MPG constantly nags at me to rethink my tow truck upgrade options. Must be a "guy" thing... If a V10 or PSD will tow with the same gas mileage as my F150 but at the same time offer the ability to tow at freeway speeds up and down the mountains then the extra cost is worth it to me. It's the finer distinctions between these engines that currently elude me...

Thanks for reading my post.... Any advice, based on personal experience, would be appreciated.

Jerry K
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Old 10-11-2005, 05:50 PM   #3
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Jerry, well I will see if I can shed some of the light on this issue as I have had both a 2000 V-10 supercab 4x4 F250 and now currently have an 04 F350 crewcab 4x4 diesel. Both trucks were automatics and had the 3:73 axle ratio. I can only give you non-towing mileage on the V-10 as we did not have a travel trailer yet only only did moderate towing of lighter trailers. Unloaded mileage in town was anywhere from 8-10 depending on time of year. On the highway running about 70 might get me about 13-14 mpg.
Now then, for the diesel. For the record, I do have a turbo back 4-inch dual exhaust and an Airraid intake system. In town, unloaded mileage can range from about 13-15 depending on time of year and how heavy my foot is. Winter fuel blends do affect mileage by about 2-3 mpg if you are in that area. On the highway, I can usually get anywhere between 16-19 depending on wind, time of year with the fuel blend. Towing, I took a 1400 mile trip with a 6000-lb travel trailer and average speed was around 70(trying not to get ran over or create an undo hazzard) and I got about 12-mpg. There was one stretch where I was running 55-mph on a two lane highway and got 13.5 after topping off. Just for comparison, a friend of mine has a 4x2 V-8 F250 with a slightly heavier trailer and on a recent trip to colorado and back averaged 8-mpg. Towing with the diesel is a no brainer, just set the cruise and you are done. I have not towed in the mountains, but the hills of Wisconsin were no trouble and had plently of power to move along if I needed to. If you venture over to the dieselstop, there is tons of information over there and there has been many threads on this very topic.
With a diesel and towing you should install some gauges to see what is going on. Boost, transmission and a pyrometer are essential when towing.
The V-10 has been redone for this year and boosts more power and torque, but I don't remember what people have been getting as far as mileage. The V-10 also gets the torqueshift tranny that has the same towing features found in the diesel, less some of the engine braking. The 6.0 diesel will also be phased out in 2007 for a new 6.4 engine that will have more power and torque to keep up with the cummins and duramax.
Hope this helps....
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Old 10-12-2005, 01:22 AM   #4
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Hi Jerry, First I'll try to answer your specific questions - though mine is an 06 F350 PSD CC (Very similar to a F250 though).

1. Engine: 6.0L PSD
2. Transmission: 5/6 Spd Auto with Tow Haul
3. 3.73
4. 4X4
5. 8000 lbs
6. 10-12 mpg depending on terrain
7. 15-20 depending on speed. Mileage above 70 suffers greatly. Stop and go mileage also is somewhat poor. Best mileage appears to be around 55-60.

Now for the opinion part. I started towing my rig with a 2001 F150 Supercrew with the 5.4L V8. I had to watch trailer loading to stay close to the GCWR of 12,500. It groaned on hills and would make it, but often screaming in 2nd gear. I traded for a 2000 F350 CC 4X4 long bed PSD. Then traded for the identical truck, but a new one (06).

I just completed a 4000 mile trip from Wisconsin to Lake Tahoe to Vegas and then up I70 through Colorado. I could maintain 60 mph throughout the mountain passes with no effort. I cruised the I70 grades in Colorado having no problem whatsoever. The truck didn''t even appear to be working that hard.

Even better, the tow haul mode of the auto transmission in the 06 is awesome on the grades down. It shifts just like you would a manual transmission. Brake to the speed you want and the truck downshifts to attempt to maintain that speed. I was able to do all of the grades on that trip by initially braking to my desired speed, and then didn't have to brake after that.

Personally, I chose the full size bed for the long wheelbase, which makes towing a dream. I tow a 23' Toyhauler, which is shorter, but weighs a ton due to toys, 100 gals of water, etc.

Now that I have towed with a diesel, I will probably never go back. The low end torque and ability to cruise at 1900 rpms with plenty of power are what attract me. If diesel prices ever go down, it'll be all the better.

So in short, I have had a very positive experience with my PSD. I think I can say difinitively that you would have the ability to tow at almost whatever speed you wish (I slowed to 50 in parts of CO just due to the curves, etc.) at better mileage. That being said, I know a number of fellas towing with 1/2 ton trucks that are perfectly happy....but they tow primarily on flat terrain.

Wouldn't it be great if you could take a test drive and bring your trailer along?

Best of luck to you.
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:26 AM   #5
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all of my customers that have the v-10 all complain about the lack of power and the 4 to 9 mpg maybe,and they all slowly converted to the diesel.

i have and would never use a gas truck for anything other than around town
quick stuff.

get the diesel !
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Old 10-12-2005, 04:35 AM   #6
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Jerry,

First, welcome to iRV2.com. It's great to have you on board!

Now, from the non-Ford perspective, we towed the same 36' 5th wheel with our previous truck (a 1996 Dodge Ram 3500 dually - V10/automatic/3.54 axle) and our current truck (a 2002 Dodge Ram 3500 dually - Cummins HO/6-speed/4.10 axle). In addition to much better towing performance, the Cummins gave a 60%+ increase in fuel economy over the V-10. When evaluating the cost of the diesel option, at least in the case of the Dodge, most (if not all) the money spent for the diesel is recovered in resale value - a good, clean Cummins-powered truck is always in demand down here in Texas.

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Old 10-12-2005, 04:56 AM   #7
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I tow with an 2005 E-350 van. I have a v-10, 4.10 RA, 5 sp. auto. Towing our 7500 lb. TT, we have gotten 8.5 to 10.5 mpg. Non towing has been up to 16 mpg with high way driving. I drive a Buick Regal daily that gets 26 to 31 mpg. The van is for vacations or trips and soon for retirement.

Previously had a 2000 F-150 with 5.4, tow package, 4x4, etc. Mpg was from 9.5 to 12. We labored up hills in WV. The v-10 does worse than the 5.4 for mpg, but not much. So far we haven't found a hill or gas station we didn't like.

Had early GM diesels in the Army many years ago. And before that, we had Dodges with the 318. I will settle for this v-10 any day.

I filled up last night and diesel was $.48 more per gallon.

Good luck.

Frank
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Old 10-12-2005, 04:08 PM   #8
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2000 Ford F-250
4.30 LS Rear End, 2 WD
Long Bed
Automatic-Extended Cab
5th Weight is around 13,000
(I added a leaf spring and 4 in. rubber blocks)
Towing mileage is around 8
Solo mileage on the road is around 14
Solo mileage in town. Don't even go there
I have PLENTY of power
Not an easy answer between Diesel and V-10
If I were purchase today, I would buy the tow command Diesel and a dually, 1 ton.

Have not spent 1 dime on repair in 46,000 miles except tires and normal maintenance.
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Old 10-13-2005, 02:58 AM   #9
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towing with
2001 F250 extended cab
7.3 PS Diesel
Fifth Wheel 8600 Empty
4.1 Rear axle
Towing, 13 to 15 depending
Highway 18 - 20
Town 15-17
Speed towing 60-62 on cruise
Highway 65
I live rural so my town driving cannot be compared to city driving. No traffic lights.
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:20 PM   #10
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Thanks to all of you for your feedback.

I understand Ford will be introducing a new F250/350 model for 06 that may intice me to trade..

Last month returning from CA to our home in Colo Springs we came back via I70 and pulling Vail and Loveland was not pleasant. Low gear at 40MPH. Although the F150 does OK with my trailer on the flats it still downshifts on the slightest incline. As I mentioned in my origonal post my trailer is a good match for the F150 but it really has to work when we get up in altitude.

Appears that the PSD gets two thumbs up while the V10 only gets one.

Thanks again

Jerry K
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:28 AM   #11
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Check out this site for Ford owners. Look at the superduty area. I myself have an 04 F350 CC V10
and economics (not mpg) chose the V10 for me.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:43 AM   #12
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I drive a 2003 E-350 V10 van and pull a 6500 lb Sunnybrook. We spent the summer on an 11000 mile trip around the country. You can read the details in the link in my signature. In there it gives the gas details. For the whole trip we averaged exactly 10 MGP. That includes about 3000 miles with no camper. (Although I really didn't notice much difference in MPG with or without it).

I got between 7 and 13 MPG during the trip. The lowest numbers are against strong headwinds and/or going especially fast. Speed and wind seem to make more difference than towing or not towing. I was very happy with the performace - even going over the steepest hills. Hope this helps.
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