Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-17-2013, 10:40 PM   #1
Member
 
Cyclone Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Returned to home in CA to become a grandparent for the first time.
Posts: 79
Automated Safety Hitch System Review

Here is a link to my review of the ASHS -

The Potential of Integrated Trailer Safety
with the Automated Safety Hitch System
__________________

__________________
David W. Gray - RV Safety Educator and Consultant at Fifth Wheel Street.
Cyclone Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-20-2013, 07:06 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
Cool idea, I just see it as a way to easily overload the drive train, especially of a Suburban.
__________________

__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
BigBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Incheon, S. Korea
Posts: 203
It looks like a great system, but I suspect it costs near $10,000. Is this correct or am I way off?
__________________
BigBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2
Price of safety axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron View Post
It looks like a great system, but I suspect it costs near $10,000. Is this correct or am I way off?
It will run approx 11000 but you get the hitch for your truck ,extra brakes on the axle , all set up for your trailer to be level , auto hook up with a winch and the axle turns with your truck. I know I bought one this year love it.
__________________
Safety hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 11:12 PM   #5
Member
 
Cyclone Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Returned to home in CA to become a grandparent for the first time.
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
Cool idea, I just see it as a way to easily overload the drive train, especially of a Suburban.
Here's the actual questionnaire response:

What was/were the primary reason(s) you decided to purchase the ASHS?

This is all about room for 2 adults, two children and one 197 lb English Mastiff. Our choice vehicle was a 3/4 ton 2012 Chevy Suburban with a 6.0 engine capable of hauling 9400 lbs. Next was a 35 foot Fuzion toy hauler weighing 12000 pounds.

Ok now how do I haul a fifth wheel with a Suburban? I get on the web start searching, up pops the Automated Safety Hitch. I sent multiple emails to Joe Jamieson and he in return answered all my questions the main one being will this work? The answer was yes, making my decision do I buy a new diesel truck to use 8 to 10 times a year and leave the dog at a kennel simple. The price comparison being $70,000 for a diesel truck or 10 to $11,000 delivered for the safety hitch. My other half answered that real quick that the dog is going with us. Called Joe the next morning and ordered the hitch. Worked out all the details with Joe Jamieson which turned out to be a pleasure as he answered all my calls and stood behind everything he told me. I received the unit in the middle of the winter. I was impressed at the detail this unit has with the steerable axle, the winch to hook up the unit and the 16 inch tires with brakes. This unit does as it says Safety. So let me sum this up, I just traveled 1,800 miles with this new safety hitch and I have to say it did everything I wanted to do. I'm impressed, it stops great, it turns so much better I got in and out of spots with a 63 foot long set up that I never thought I could and I used my Suburban to do it all. After using this I'm hooked even if I change vehicles I will still use this safety hitch. My thanks go to Joe Jamieson for all the help and for building a quality product.

Tow Vehicle Make: Chevy Year: 2012 Model: Suburban 4 WD

RV Info: Make: Keystone RV, Model: Fuzion, Trailer Length: 35’, 14000# Loaded

Has the ASHS met or exceeded your expectations?

Yes

Have you encountered any difficult driving, parking or backing situations with the ASHS? Explain.

No problems

Have you had any problems with lack of weight on the tow vehicle’s rear axle since there isn’t trailer pin weight there?

Joe sets it up at factory, no problem.

Has law enforcement anywhere questioned, advised or ticketed you concerning the ASHS? Explain.

No

What general area(s) have you traveled while using the ASHS?

Albany NY to Myrtle Beach and local 50 mile runs

Do you recommend the ASHS to others?

Yes

Share any other comments about your experience with the ASHS

It takes a short time to get use to, and then you love it. In my opinion after a 1,800 mile trip I don't think the drive train was strained at all. You have to see this hitch to understand the weight distribution and braking. The transmission temp stays steady.
__________________
David W. Gray - RV Safety Educator and Consultant at Fifth Wheel Street.
Cyclone Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 07:52 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
Cool idea, I just see it as a way to easily overload the drive train, especially of a Suburban.
Well, you don't have to be a numbskull and exceed the GCWR of your tow vehicle just because of the hitch system reduces your hitch weight. That Suburban has a tow rating (derived from the GCWR) of 9,400 pounds. And even that tow rating is based on having nothing in the SUV but a skinny driver. The max weight of any trailer you should tow with that SUV is about 9,000 pounds, regardless of the hitch system.

The 2500 Subby can pull more than 9,000 pounds, just like the now-infamous clip of a Toyota pickup pulling the space shuttle. But just because you can move the weight doesn't mean it's smart to tow it down the public highway.

Most SUVs cannot tow anywhere near the tow rating without exceeding the GVWR. But with that hitch, hitch weight is no longer a limiter, so you should be able to tow a trailer that grosses close to the tow rating without exceeding the GVWR. All the tow vehicle manufacturers warn that you should never exceed either the GVWR or the GCWR of the tow vehicle. That hitch eases the problem of exceeding the GVWR but not the GCWR of the tow vehicle.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:05 AM   #7
Member
 
Cyclone Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Returned to home in CA to become a grandparent for the first time.
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Well, you don't have to be a numbskull and exceed the GCWR of your tow vehicle just because of the hitch system reduces your hitch weight. That Suburban has a tow rating (derived from the GCWR) of 9,400 pounds. And even that tow rating is based on having nothing in the SUV but a skinny driver. The max weight of any trailer you should tow with that SUV is about 9,000 pounds, regardless of the hitch system.

The 2500 Subby can pull more than 9,000 pounds, just like the now-infamous clip of a Toyota pickup pulling the space shuttle. But just because you can move the weight doesn't mean it's smart to tow it down the public highway.

Most SUVs cannot tow anywhere near the tow rating without exceeding the GVWR. But with that hitch, hitch weight is no longer a limiter, so you should be able to tow a trailer that grosses close to the tow rating without exceeding the GVWR. All the tow vehicle manufacturers warn that you should never exceed either the GVWR or the GCWR of the tow vehicle. That hitch eases the problem of exceeding the GVWR but not the GCWR of the tow vehicle.
Until you understand the why, you'll not understand the how.

I recommend you read A Lesson on Gross Combined Weight Rating
__________________
David W. Gray - RV Safety Educator and Consultant at Fifth Wheel Street.
Cyclone Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:09 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
"In fact, this system will increase your towing and braking capacity by 50%."
That system still can not increase the OEM GCWR by 1%. Stopping, maybe. But unless it is a drive axle, it does not increase the ability of the drive train to handle the weight and momentum.

"Typically, the engine and transmission are capable towing a great amount of weight. This was recently proved when the Toyota Tundra towed the Space Shuttle."
At 1MPH, for maybe 100yds? At least it had better aerodynamics than a fifth wheel.

I understand weight ratings, and that link doesn't really explain to me how this will increase your GCWR. So like I said, pretty cool, innovative product, that can allow Expeditions to overload their GCWR.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 03:04 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2
I own the suburban with the safety hitch which I'm keeping for local trips because
It's gas not diesel. I just purchased a 2500 2013 chevy duramax short bed .First thing I did was order from safety hitch the built hitch for my truck. I now have the bed free and if in the future I want a larger rig I can without buying a new truck. This hitch axle does as it name says Safety, turning , stopping and taking 50 % of your weight off the truck.I've heard all the negative opinions but its mine that counts POSITIVE I know I own one.
__________________
Safety hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone Dave View Post
Until you understand the why, you'll not understand the how.

I recommend you read A Lesson on Gross Combined Weight Rating
And what makes these people the "expert"?

The whole thing is an overly expensive solution to a problem that does not really need exist.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #11
Member
 
Cyclone Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Returned to home in CA to become a grandparent for the first time.
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
"In fact, this system will increase your towing and braking capacity by 50%."
That system still can not increase the OEM GCWR by 1%. Stopping, maybe. But unless it is a drive axle, it does not increase the ability of the drive train to handle the weight and momentum.

"Typically, the engine and transmission are capable towing a great amount of weight. This was recently proved when the Toyota Tundra towed the Space Shuttle."
At 1MPH, for maybe 100yds? At least it had better aerodynamics than a fifth wheel.

I understand weight ratings, and that link doesn't really explain to me how this will increase your GCWR. So like I said, pretty cool, innovative product, that can allow Expeditions to overload their GCWR.
The mistake here, as I perceive it, is you think the GCWR is all about ability or power of the vehicle tow something. For most vehicles, the primary GCWR limiting factors are the springs and brakes. Differential gear ratio does play a role and that is discussed in the second article I mentioned to read above.

Also, GCWR is not an enforceable rating covered by any law that I know of. It is not listed on the certification label for that reason. I haven’t discovered any statement or policy which leads me to believe that the GCWR is nothing other than a recommendation by the manufacturer.

As far as the Tundra towing the Space Shuttle, the speed and distance is not relevant. What was proved by this feat was the engine, transmission and the torque to the road surface was capable of towing 292,000 pounds. Check out this webpage and videos on this massive tow.

In the first video, you’ll see that it was nothing more than an extremely large Automated Safety Hitch System that was attached the truck. The ASHS takes all the vertical load of the trailer (Space Shuttle landing gear) which allows the full extent of pulling torque to be transferred to the road surface and not impeded by “carrying torque” when 3 to 4,000 pounds is over the rear axle.

The second video discusses the engineering aspects of the Tundra.

Therefore, the ASHS is capable of increasing the towing capacity, and with the additional heavy duty brakes, you have more than enough stopping power for any load currently available to RVers.

RV consultant Bob Zagami said it well, "It is not how much you can tow, it is how much you can control and stop that is important!"
__________________
David W. Gray - RV Safety Educator and Consultant at Fifth Wheel Street.
Cyclone Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:26 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone Dave View Post
The mistake here, as I perceive it, is you think the GCWR is all about ability or power of the vehicle tow something. For most vehicles, the primary GCWR limiting factors are the springs and brakes. Differential gear ratio does play a role and that is discussed in the second article I mentioned to read above. The GCWR is about the motor, cooling system, transmission, input shaft, output shaft, drive shaft, carrier bearing, diff, bearings, brakes (including booster, lines, caliper piston, pads, rotors), and motor fueling and safety features for a certain class of tow vehicle including frame and hitch and all the metal in the thing.

Also, GCWR is not an enforceable rating covered by any law that I know of. That's what I thought too. Doesn't mean that OEM was wrong and you should go over that. It is not listed on the certification label for that reason. I haven’t discovered any statement or policy which leads me to believe that the GCWR is nothing other than a recommendation by the manufacturer.

As far as the Tundra towing the Space Shuttle, the speed and distance is not relevant. What was proved by this feat was the engine, transmission and the torque to the road surface was capable of towing 292,000 pounds. Check out this webpage and videos on this massive tow. Speed and distance do matter. Could the Tundra tow that at 70MPH for as long as it had fuel? That bottom end of the motor was torquing hard. Those pistons were getting hot, especially without cooling jets under them. The injectors probably had low fuel pressure/flow since the pump wasn't designed for that. The exhaust was heating up since it wasn't designed for that much exhaust back pressure and heat being pushed out. The torque converter on the trans was spinning fast and heating up way too much. The clutches were slipping like a mofo I'm sure. Since the tires didn't spin, that means ALL the torque was being put to the ground, which means that everything after the trans (drive shaft, diff, tires) was not slipping, putting a massive amount of torque on all the components that weren't giving and slipping. If you can overload your "recommended" GCWR, things will start doing that. That means, speed and distance do matter. Over a bridge, nothing will blow up. Keep everything under constant torque, heat, and slip, and something can break.

In the first video, you’ll see that it was nothing more than an extremely large Automated Safety Hitch System that was attached the truck. The ASHS takes all the vertical load of the trailer (Space Shuttle landing gear) which allows the full extent of pulling torque to be transferred to the road surface and not impeded by “carrying torque” when 3 to 4,000 pounds is over the rear axle.

The second video discusses the engineering aspects of the Tundra.

Therefore, the ASHS is capable of increasing the towing capacity, and with the additional heavy duty brakes, you have more than enough stopping power for any load currently available to RVers.

RV consultant Bob Zagami said it well, "It is not how much you can tow, it is how much you can control and stop that is important!"
The control brings up another point; is the axle of the ASHS as wide as the trailer axles?
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 10:31 PM   #13
Member
 
Cyclone Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Returned to home in CA to become a grandparent for the first time.
Posts: 79
jesilvas,

The bottom line about ratings is that a rating is always based on the weakest link. I hope you’ll agree with that.

Now, you have a long list of components and they are all rated in some form or fashion. Some of the components individually may be weak. But when assembled together with other components, they will make a stronger component and so on.

Please show me documented proof that these combinations of components used together that make up the powertrain will fail when the OEM recommended towing capacity is exceeded by 50%. (Excluding the already discussed brakes, springs and gear ratio) I hope you can because after two years of occasional searching, I haven’t found it.

I think it is reasonable to say that the engine and transmission combinations are fairly evenly matched in rating. I also think it’s reasonable to say that as long as the “red line” is not exceeded, the amount of load does not matter. True, to think that the Tundra would tow 292K at 70 MPH would be ridiculous. Or would it? If given the right location, circumstances and distance, just by the power of keeping something in motion, can over time, gradually go faster with controlled acceleration. That’s just one of laws of physics.

Thankfully, the Tundra is using the world’s largest ASHS to stop the motion.

As for all those things you are assuming are going on with the powertrain while towing 292K could be correct. I don’t really know. I haven’t seen a report on that nor have I looked for one. But towing 50% beyond the recommended towing capacity is long ways from the weight of the Space Shuttle.

Unless you or someone can present some compelling evidence, my impression is you are underestimating the capability of the engine and transmission to tow up to 50% beyond the OEM recommended towing capacity. The ASHS eliminates the problem with springs and brakes on the tow vehicle. The only other issue I would be concerned about is the differential gear ratio.

Thus far, you haven’t convinced me there are any alarms with any of your opinions or views concerning the ASHS. I suppose at the point we shall call a truce because I don’t think we’ll reach an agreement.


As for the ASHS axle, I don't think it is any wider than the normal truck axle. So, I guess it would be little less than a trailer axle width. That doesn't matter because of the way the ASHS is attached to the tow vehicle. When attached, it literally becomes part of the truck's frame, in essence, the truck just became longer with extra wheels and brakes. And a longer truck is much more stable and safer.
__________________
David W. Gray - RV Safety Educator and Consultant at Fifth Wheel Street.
Cyclone Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 06:09 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
BigBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Incheon, S. Korea
Posts: 203
Funny. It's a great system, but a 14,000 lb. rig with a burb? Cozy up to your local tranny shop. You'll need them...
__________________

__________________
BigBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
safety



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.