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Old 07-29-2013, 08:32 PM   #29
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If he can keep his tounge weight low enough so it doesnt overload the weight of his car then i say go for it and see how it feels.
Tongue weight at 90 across three axles. Still plan on putting everything we do have behind the tt axle.

I realize we can't take anything without driving a second vehicle. No bike, television, nothing extra. But it'll do for the time being.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:48 PM   #30
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Vehicle are changing a lot. Getting more power out of smaller engines. Using different metal composites that are stronger and lighter. Just in five years much have changed. There is almost a tow basis, because for decades you can only tow if you had big vehicle. Just not the case anymore. I think many don't trust the changes. It doesn't sound right for 4 and 6 bangers to be towing.

One thing is certain. I just bought the tt so im not getting rid of it. I plan on living in it this winter to stay close to work.
i agree. Thats why i think tow ratings are just for marketing purposes these days. Compare an F150 svt raptor that has a 8000lb tow rating with its 35inch off road tires, ultra soft 13.5 inches of suspension travel, high center of gravity is a good tv, ya right lol. Fords full sized sedan tauras sho with its ecoboosted v6, low center of gravity and unibody frame thats as stiff as any full framed truck from the 80s isnt even recommend to tow anything!
Or how about the crown victory that had a tow rating of 5000lbs for decades then magiclly dropped to 2000lbs without any changes ....its all about the marketing.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #31
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Real advice from someone who just upgraded because I was towing overweight;

Stay off the super slab or Interstate highways.
Even IF you are going under posted speed limit, those trucks passing you are NOT! The wind from them will catch the sides of your trailer and WAG the tow vehicle. Overcorrection will put you off the road, upside down, in the ditch, or just right into the side of that truck that is zooming past! That was my fear with a Z71 extended cab towing a 27' toyhauler just 1,200 lbs over weight. I had the tow package, trailer brakes, trans cooler, WDH, and upgraded LT tires. Nothing ever happened, but there were some uneasy feelings a time or two.

4 lane state roads, US highways, and the such will be easier towing on. Keep speed below 65 at all times. Do not try to keep up with the flow of traffic, leave yourself more stopping room than you think you need - because some jerk WILL fill that space when you need it the most.

Tire inflation - inflate what you are gonna to tow with, to MAX inflation per sidewall specs. Tires flex more with more weight and more flexing means heat and cord destruction and sidewall blowouts. Inflating to max minimizes flex and heat. Stop every hour for water/restroom break to check tire for heat and let them cool some if they are really hot. Slower speed will keep tires cooler too.

An auto parts store here called Auto Zone has a back up camera kit for $100. It is wireless and has a mini screen, but is a whole kit - camera and screen.

My new (to me) tow vehicle is in my signature. I can now load trailer to its max of 11,600 and still have a large saftey cusion.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:46 PM   #32
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Thanks for the friendly advice. What i wanted to know. I was worried about the interstate. Thought i may have to use the state roads. Now i think i will, even if it takes longer.

Didn't think about checking the auto parts stores for a camera. I may have to see if there's enough left for it.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:57 PM   #33
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Good point about tire air....
do ALL tires to max when COLD or +10 psi when hot... i.e. if they call for 80 psi for max load and you have been driving for a while they should read 90 psi or so...

(I know - sounds insane, but goodyear recommends it for their trailer tires )

do the tow vehicle, the trailer, and all spares !!!

good luck and stop about 15 minutes down the road and do a walk around, then about an hour or two later just to get comfortable...

be careful and enjoy !


(might even stop at a cat scale to know where you stand - only 9 or $10 and worth the peace of mind) CAT Scale Locator | CAT Scale
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:02 PM   #34
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In Washington State they leave many of the truck scale houses weight display on, and you can use it it off hours. When time permits I would recommend going to a scale house and check front, rear, and TT weights.
I pulled a 24 ft, TT for years with a 76 Ford standard cab 4x4, it pulled great! Then I bought a 32 ft, TT- front kitchen, the truck was just not enough to handle it, the TT had hitch weight of 1050 lbs. I had EZ lift hitch with 1000 lbs bars but still was not enough truck to handle that trailer. So, at the time(1996) I bought a 1995 extra cab 4x4, it was night and day difference
By going to the scales I was able to equalize the weight with the bars, I took the time to weigh the hitch weight of the TT alone and adjusted the front and rear weight of the truck by using the links on the EZlift bars.
Remember!!! you want more weight on your TV rear axle than the front, never put everything in the rear of the TT unless the hitch weight is really heavy......only way to know for sure is on a scale!
I've towed TT for 40 years now, from sea level to 8500 ft. Never a breakdown or blown tire. I still have a little 26 ft. hunting trailer LOL! camp at 5500 ft and hope it doesn't snow too much!
You may not want to pull in overdrive, don't lug the TV, and watch the trans temp gauge like a hawk, if it gets hot pull over and get a snack out of the TT. Check fluids in TV before taking off each time, tire pressure, and hitch, bars, chains.
Get those mirror extenders!
Good camping, have fun!
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:11 AM   #35
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ya know, for very little money you can get a 10 yr old 3/4 ton with 200,000 mi and it will tow that rig as reliably as the Sub. just sayin......
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:03 AM   #36
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ya know, for very little money you can get a 10 yr old 3/4 ton with 200,000 mi and it will tow that rig as reliably as the Sub. just sayin......
My dad had a 04 buick rainer 5.7l, he towed with. He upgraded tires, shocks, spring, cooler. He passed a few months ago and my mom wants something smaller that does better than 17mpg. I might buy it from her. My wife's car pd for, but still has 40k on the bumper to bumper. She really doesn't want to trade.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:31 AM   #37
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My dad had a 04 buick rainer 5.7l, he towed with. He upgraded tires, shocks, spring, cooler. He passed a few months ago and my mom wants something smaller that does better than 17mpg. I might buy it from her. My wife's car pd for, but still has 40k on the bumper to bumper. She really doesn't want to trade.
I think you just nailed it.... The Buick will work as a TV MUCH better than the Subaru and sounds like your mother would be happier with the Sub...
Straight swap (at least temporarily). Everyone's happy.
You asked for advice and got plenty. The overriding message is "Don't do it"
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:33 AM   #38
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OP seems dead set on towing that TT with his Subaru no matter what. Has all the facts, data and opinions needed to support his stand. No opposite recommendations are going to have much of an influence it seems.

I'm also with the don't do it crowd for the following reasons.

Payload would be my biggest concern. The tongue weight is likely going to be 500+ lbs. Add driver, wife, kids, pets, groceries and other cargo and you are going to be over 1,000 lbs of payload. That's 1/2 ton truck territory. We have a newer Subaru. Handles very well with just the driver. But add 3 passengers and head out onto the highway, and it handles like a dog. The suspension is too soft for heavy loads and it wallows and handles unpredictably. I can't imagine trying to drive with 1000 lbs of payload and tow a nearly 4,000 lb trailer behind it. I would not entertain that in my worst dreams.... Accident waiting to happen IMO.

It's not just about having enough muscle to pull a trailer. It's also about the brakes and suspension. The Subaru brakes and suspension are nothing special and will not stand up to the abuse of towing a trailer like that. If you ever have to slow down or stop suddenly or make a sudden evasive maneuver in an emergency such as someone pulling in front of you approaching a stoplight or on a highway, you will have trouble.

And then you've got all that extra strain on the entire drivetrain. I can't imagine how bad that would be for it. Unless it's the turbocharged engine, I would think that maintaining a decent speed on grades would be hard.

UVW and factory tongue weights on trailers mean nothing. The actual weight is always higher. Factory UVWs do not include factory options and dealer (propane tanks, batteries eg.) or owner added items (stab jacks, eg.). Then of course there's all your own cargo. The UVW will go up to around 1,000 lbs. I would use the trailer's GVWR as the figure to go by. Our last TT was 20' with a UVW of 3700 lbs. It ended up weighing 5,000 lbs all loaded up for camping, which is what the GVWR was. Our current TT weighs 200 lbs under the GVWR and would be over that with just one full tank of water. The tongue weight on our current TT is almost double what the factory number is. This is typical of how it is with TTs.

If the OP ever does get in an accident, there's also the question of liability should it be demonstrated that the TV was grossly overloaded.

At the very, very least, I would go weigh that Subaru all loaded up with passengers, groceries and any cargo you would take camping and then subtract that from the GVWR. That's the only way to get an accurate available payload figure. Then decide if you want to tow overloaded.

If OP stills insists on towing the TT, a good sway control setup is a must. And weight distribution on the WDH better be set up right.

Life is full of all sorts of examples of people who ignored safety warnings and ended up in trouble. They *thought* they would be just fine. For example, around here, every winter we get people who go out of bounds on the local mountains and get lost or fall down cliffs. Then Search and Rescue has to go get them. Sometimes they never make it out. Things like warnings and weight limits are there for a reason.

Otherwise, have a great time camping!

Off my soapbox and back to breakfast...
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:01 AM   #39
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Payload would be my biggest concern. The tongue weight is likely going to be 500+ lbs. Add driver, wife, kids, pets, groceries and other cargo and you are going to be over 1,000 lbs of payload. That's 1/2 ton truck territory. We have a newer Subaru. Handles very well with just the driver. But add 3 passengers and head out onto the highway, and it handles like a dog. The suspension is too soft for heavy loads and it wallows and handles unpredictably. I can't imagine trying to drive with 1000 lbs of payload and tow a nearly 4,000 lb trailer behind it. I would not entertain that in my worst dreams.... Accident waiting to happen IMO....
I think you've missed most of the other posts. Here is a synopsis. Tongue in 90, i couldn't get it to 500+. There is no pets or groceries or ANYTHING but ppl in TV. My TT does not weigh 4000lbs. Under 3000 max. My camping obviously isnt like your.

Speaking generally now, and with all due respect to the veterans, my post was simply asking how to tow heavy. Not if i should tow. Or what your opinion was on my vehicle. I like my car and i know its limits better than anyone. I also know my skill levels for towing, which is also a factor. I simply wanted advise on how to mitigate risks. A few posts hit it on the mark. And a few didn't. I had no idea how emotional fellow campers get over towing.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:54 AM   #40
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... I had no idea how emotional fellow campers get over towing.
That just may be because you are not out there alone. Some of us may be behind you, for a while.

I read an article not long ago about how tow ratings were really stretching the limits, and not on the conservative side. There is no standard test for the rating, just manufactures estimates, based a lot on marketing.

Just my $0.02.

H
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:28 AM   #41
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That just may be because you are not out there alone. Some of us may be behind you, for a while.

H
And I can understand that. But can you drive by on the highway and look at a someone towing a camper and say, "Whoa, look at the idiot, he's a 100 pounds over weight. He's going to kill someone!"


This is what the thread is about. A little help from fellow campers, that also put a few too many pounds then they took off on a trip. I have a odd feeling there a few of you out there.


But I feel like this thread got off topic.


Some people looked at Subaru and just assumed it can't tow, without facts or knowledge. I have yet to hear from anyone that says, "Yea, I have a 2012 Outback 2.5i, and I tried to tow it just 100 lbs over, and boy was that a mistake." Now IF I heard that, it'd be a different story.


Some will assume my Amerilite is packed past its' gross weight, and I'm packing my car like it's a pickup truck. I've clearly stated that it will not be. I am sorry, and I apologize for my frustation. I've got some really good advice, I just have to weed through the obtuse posts to get it.



Now the good information I have got from this thread is:
  • It won't hurt to upgrade my rear suspension to be a little stiffer.
  • I need to make sure my tire pressure is at max.
  • interstate and trucks can be dangerous, two lane maybe a better choice.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:55 AM   #42
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But I feel like this thread got off topic.

I'm sorry, I thought the topic was towing overweight. Guess it should have been sub titled "I am going to tow over weight and I want everyone to bless that decision."

My opinion is that it is not a good idea to tow even at the Max Tow Rating. Have you had them on scales?

Again, just my $0.02. Guess that makes $0.04 now!

H
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