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Old 07-22-2013, 07:13 PM   #1
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Broke down again.

So, here we sit in northern Utah with our broken Ford F250 diesel. Third time this trip and we are about ready to jettison this truck. Any input on the 2013 Ram 3500? We are camped in a combined Ford/Ram dealership and the new 3500 is looking mighty good at this point. The F250 has had problems ever since we bought it (2 years ago) and now we are getting a little gun shy about travelling with it. Any input on the new Rams will be appreciated.

Phil
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:18 PM   #2
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My 2011 Cummins-powered Ram has never been in the shop for anything other than routine service and does an excellent job towing our 5th wheel. The 2013 Cummins-powered Rams are even better.

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Old 07-22-2013, 08:26 PM   #3
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Sounds like you need some more info on how to properly care for a 6.0 and mechanics who can actually use it.
The 6.0 is not for everyone, but is a GREAT truck if you're willing to take care of them.
Fair warning, any modern diesel after the CR 5.9 Cummins and 7.3 Powerstrokes will not be easy to care for. Lots of maintenance. LOTS.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jesilvas View Post
Sounds like you need some more info on how to properly care for a 6.0 and mechanics who can actually use it.
The 6.0 is not for everyone, but is a GREAT truck if you're willing to take care of them.
Fair warning, any modern diesel after the CR 5.9 Cummins and 7.3 Powerstrokes will not be easy to care for. Lots of maintenance. LOTS.
Sounds like you might be assuming he need's to do more maintance and better care and you know what assuming is.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:54 PM   #5
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If possible please explain what has happened and going on. If you broke down 3 times in a single trip, there may be an underlying issue that was not resolved and continues to cause your issue. Would love to try and help if needed.
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Old 07-22-2013, 09:44 PM   #6
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Get ya a old 7.3 one ton , restore it and drive it till one of you die....
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:36 AM   #7
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I think it really depends upon what is wrong with the 6 leaker.. err.. 6 litre Powerstroke. There are numerous issues that Ford has addressed from 2003-2006 on those powerplants. Many serious ones included cooling, EGR and turbo issues. Once repaired properly the 6 litre has been a very good engine. I will agree with Jesilvas however, the days of the super reliable, simplistic, easy-to-repair 7.3 powerstroke and 5.9 cummins are gone. I had an 08 F250 with the 6.4 (the last International engine) and it was a nightmare. Any of the Ford F series diesels after 2007 require you to pull the cab to do the simplest of jobs such as replacing valve cover gaskets. I gladly sold it at a loss after 2 yrs and now have a 2001 F250 with the 7.3 - thankfully.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:54 AM   #8
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All of the proper maintenance has been performed on this truck. I never tow above 65 mph and try to keep the boost at or below 20 psi when climbing hills. I have not abused the truck in any way and do resent being told in no uncertain way that this is all my fault.

Drove it out of the ford dealer and less than a week later we lost the first turbo. Got that replaced and within a week, it too was shot. Replaced that one and all seemed good until trying to get over the continental divide and the clamp that holds the boot to the turbo failed.

Since then the turbo has not been an issue. This last trip we made it to New Orleans, parked and walked for three days before attempting to start up again. Cranked but would not start. Towed to the nearest ford shop and they found the fuel injection control module was bad. Repaired for almost $1400 and off we went after an extra day in New Orleans. Made it to Dallas and similar circumstances, crank but no start. Found the first ford dealer had mangled the connector to the ficm. Repaired that and left to continue our travels. We made it to Utah where we were finally nearing home and while cruising up I84 the engine suddenly stopped running. We did manage to get everything off the road and onto the shoulder before coasting to a stop. Again, crank but no run.

I have enjoyed the truck a lot, when it runs but this is getting rediculous. Is every ford diesel mechanic incompetent? I don't think so. I have on the other hand heard some similar horror stories about this 6.0 engine. So, if I am doing something wrong, please correct me.

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Old 07-23-2013, 09:00 AM   #9
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All of the proper maintenance has been performed on this truck. I never tow above 65 mph and try to keep the boost at or below 20 psi when climbing hills. I have not abused the truck in any way and do resent being told in no uncertain way that this is all my fault.

Drove it out of the ford dealer and less than a week later we lost the first turbo. Got that replaced and within a week, it too was shot. Replaced that one and all seemed good until trying to get over the continental divide and the clamp that holds the boot to the turbo failed.

Since then the turbo has not been an issue. This last trip we made it to New Orleans, parked and walked for three days before attempting to start up again. Cranked but would not start. Towed to the nearest ford shop and they found the fuel injection control module was bad. Repaired for almost $1400 and off we went after an extra day in New Orleans. Made it to Dallas and similar circumstances, crank but no start. Found the first ford dealer had mangled the connector to the ficm. Repaired that and left to continue our travels. We made it to Utah where we were finally nearing home and while cruising up I84 the engine suddenly stopped running. We did manage to get everything off the road and onto the shoulder before coasting to a stop. Again, crank but no run.

I have enjoyed the truck a lot, when it runs but this is getting rediculous. Is every ford diesel mechanic incompetent? I don't think so. I have on the other hand heard some similar horror stories about this 6.0 engine. So, if I am doing something wrong, please correct me.

Phil
Sounds like a problematic 6.0 im a Ford guy and wouldn't touch a 6.0. You can "bulletproof" them. Egr delete, headgaskets, head studs, turbo, piping, and radiator orrrr get your self a 7.3 and roll on. 2013 rams sound good but ive had friends that have had tranny and electrical problems in units a few yrs old. If you like the ford get the same-ish body style and get a 7.3. Just my .02
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:16 AM   #10
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Personally I would jump on a Ram Cummins. I jumped to a Cummins from a problematic Duramax in 2007 and have not regretted it one bit
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:26 AM   #11
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If you got the coin go Dmax or Cummins. Heard too many stories about HPFP failures in the 6.7 and Ford not backing it up. Same CP.4 as Dmax and VW use but Ford for some reason is dissing it's owners. It's not a wide spread problem by any means, it's just that Ford won't take care of it under warranty like GM and VW do. @$12,000 a pop to fix, it's not worth the chance. I have a 12 Ram CTD and the power is great. 11,000 miles so far and zero problems. Well one, the OEM TBC is junk. You either get a good one or bad one. Replaced it with an after market one and all is good. The 6.0 is a crap shoot as well. Sounds like you aren't one of the lucky ones.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #12
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I had an 08 F250 with the 6.4 (the last International engine) and it was a nightmare. Any of the Ford F series diesels after 2007 require you to pull the cab to do the simplest of jobs such as replacing valve cover gaskets. I gladly sold it at a loss after 2 yrs and now have a 2001 F250 with the 7.3 - thankfully.
I don't know who told you that but they are incorrect. Most repairs including the turbo and valve covers are an in chassis repair. The valve covers can be removed in less than 30 minutes. However, the high pressure pump is done much easier with the cab removed. But again, I can have a cab off in less than an hour. Very easy to do.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:04 PM   #13
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All of the proper maintenance has been performed on this truck. I never tow above 65 mph and try to keep the boost at or below 20 psi when climbing hills. I have not abused the truck in any way and do resent being told in no uncertain way that this is all my fault.

Drove it out of the ford dealer and less than a week later we lost the first turbo. Got that replaced and within a week, it too was shot. Replaced that one and all seemed good until trying to get over the continental divide and the clamp that holds the boot to the turbo failed.

Since then the turbo has not been an issue. This last trip we made it to New Orleans, parked and walked for three days before attempting to start up again. Cranked but would not start. Towed to the nearest ford shop and they found the fuel injection control module was bad. Repaired for almost $1400 and off we went after an extra day in New Orleans. Made it to Dallas and similar circumstances, crank but no start. Found the first ford dealer had mangled the connector to the ficm. Repaired that and left to continue our travels. We made it to Utah where we were finally nearing home and while cruising up I84 the engine suddenly stopped running. We did manage to get everything off the road and onto the shoulder before coasting to a stop. Again, crank but no run.

I have enjoyed the truck a lot, when it runs but this is getting rediculous. Is every ford diesel mechanic incompetent? I don't think so. I have on the other hand heard some similar horror stories about this 6.0 engine. So, if I am doing something wrong, please correct me.

Phil
I would like to know why the dealers said they needed to replace the turbo several times. Unless the turbo is leaking oil or seized up, the turbo is fine. The turbo only does what it is told by the PCM by the VGT solenoid and the amount of exhaust/heat going through it. Unfortunately this seems to be a reoccurring event of misdiagnosis and the final outcome is the customer is being hosed. Im guessing here but I would be willing to bet the turbos were replaced because of a P0299 code in the PCM. Low fuel pressure, EGR issues, exhaust leaks, plugged exhaust. However, if the truck sits for a while (over a month typically) without sitting, the vanes can rust up and stick. There is an updated center housing that helps with this immensely. Don't see to may issues with the updated center housing. However, the turbo does not need to be replaced as an assembly. Based on what you described, im leaning towards incompetent techs working on it and for that im truly sorry as this should not happen at a dealership.

The FICM is known to fail at higher mileage units. I don't want to say it is common because a lot of them do last a long time. This is similar to the failure rates that the 7.3L had with the IDM. This is basicly the same type of module. It raises the voltage to the injectors to over 40V DC. Since the truck shut off (which is rare) due to a FICM issue, I would not suspect the batteries or charging system but I have seen a few times that the FICM's were replaced an not bad. The batteries were weak and the FICM would set circuit fault codes that said it was bad. I cannot even speculate how someone screwed up the wiring to the FCIM but they must not have a clue. Im thinking of the scenarios in my head and cannot come up with one that would make any since.

Back to the batteries, I highly recommend nothing but motorcraft batteries. I have seen way to many repeat alternator failures do to duralast, interstate, and to some degree Anderson batteries. From what I can conclude is the internal resistance is to high so the voltage is never reached that the PCM is looking for. This will cause the alternator to over charge and over heat that results in failures.

I don't know how many miles are on the truck right now but if shut off again and you have over 150K on the clock, I would suspect a possible IPR. This solenoid controls the high pressure pump pressure. I cannot stress this enough but make sure that the heat shield is put back over the solenoid. If they replace it, make sure you verify that it is on and they show you. It can be seen, not easily but it can. This solenoid is under the exhaust and near the turbo, there is a lot of heat in that area and this is an electrical component. If not installed, it will fail again and likely soon. If someone was in there prior for something else and decided to not install it, this could have caused it. The shield is a pain in the back side to install but that is what the tech is paid to do.

If you want any other assistance, feel free to PM me with a phone number and I will help as much as I can. BTW, I work at Ford dealer and is the primary diesel guy. I am still learning something new everyday but im sure I can help.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #14
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BTW, it was not mentioned or I missed it what year truck you have an mileage. In many cases every dealer has CLP (customer loyalty) that can be used for cases like yours. You may have to go through the Ford customer assistance however, they may be a crap shoot.
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