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Old 12-12-2018, 05:08 PM   #29
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When you can buy a new RAM 3500 off the lot that is rated to tow a smidge over 30,000 lbs and has a payload capacity between 5,500 and 6K lbs, I'd say that in itself is overrated for a 21K lb 5er. No sense in stepping up to a 4500.
Depends on the pin weight. And also I and many do not feel it is safe to tow a massive 20k+ trailer with a LDT. You are the weakest link in this chain. In a uh oh moment, you are totally at the mercy of the trailer. I know lots do it and have seen some terrible accidents and the drivers do not come out well. The bigger, heavier truck is safer. To state this is no sense is just wrong. I also never felt safe towing my Teton with the 3500. Power was fine. I felt very small.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:22 PM   #30
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Depends on the pin weight. And also I and many do not feel it is safe to tow a massive 20k+ trailer with a LDT. You are the weakest link in this chain. In a uh oh moment, you are totally at the mercy of the trailer. I know lots do it and have seen some terrible accidents and the drivers do not come out well. The bigger, heavier truck is safer. To state this is no sense is just wrong. I also never felt safe towing my Teton with the 3500. Power was fine. I felt very small.
So are you saying even the F450/Ram4500 are to small in your opinion or just the F350/Ram3500?

I've been thinking about what we have discussed about going with a tractor instead of a pickup truck. I will look at some when it is time to shop and see what I can find. But I would then have to buy a second rig for a daily driver. So there is a lot to consider.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:58 PM   #31
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3500 is a LDT and always will. It is a great selling truck and to make it a MDT would hurt sales. A MDT is much better for heavy tall loads. 5500 is a MDT in a pick up style truck. It has huge brakes, true engine brakes, much heavier all over. There is no comparison between the two. Also Chey is coming out this year with a 6500. And the same can be said for a Semi over a 5500. I don't even know ours is behind us. If not for mirrors might forget it, lol. I can set my engine brake and barely even use my brakes. Having a truck decided to tow with, it will last you a life time. It is exspensive to buy new trucks and wear them out with lots of miles.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:45 PM   #32
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So where does the F450/Ram4500 fit into this? They are larger than the F350/Ram3500 trucks with bigger brakes and tires. I am not sure what else is done to them.


Yes I know all the reasons to go with the semi tractor over a pickup. I get it I'm just not sure it would work for what I am wanting to do.
On a side note do you ever run into camp grounds that will not allow you into them becasue of your tow rig? I have ran across a few out here in the PNW that have signs saying no semi rigs but I think they are talking about truckers not people who use a OTR tractor to tow with.
Do you boondock with your setup?
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:51 PM   #33
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I drive a 4500 topkick daily. No prob no longer or wider then a 3500. Just taller and more truck under you. Its 3000 pounds heavier then my 3500 was. My Teton is 5800 on the pin with empty tanks. No way would I put a 3500 under it.

Campgrounds don't care about tow rig when you have a big 5ver behind it. Unless you can't drive and destroy things with that big tow rig.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:52 PM   #34
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I’m pulling my 45’ DRV toyhauler, (21,000+ pounds) HD Road Glide in the Garage with my 2017 RAM 3500, 411 gears and Aisin 6 speed. Does a great job.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:53 PM   #35
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The 450 and 350 have the same rear axle rating. No engine brakes. Still a LDT. Some better than a 3500 . 5500 much more and different class.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:04 PM   #36
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The 450 and 350 have the same rear axle rating. No engine brakes. Still a LDT. Some better than a 3500 . 5500 much more and different class.
The ram diesels from 2500 and up have 2 stage engine brakes.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:19 PM   #37
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Since when? All I ever seem just had a turbo brake. They refer to it as engine brake but it works off of the turbo. True engine brakes works with the valves. Or perhaps should use the term Jac brakes
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:58 PM   #38
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I’m pulling my 45’ DRV toyhauler, (21,000+ pounds) HD Road Glide in the Garage with my 2017 RAM 3500, 411 gears and Aisin 6 speed. Does a great job.
Well add in a 97 Jeep TJ that weighs about 5,200lbs and that is going to be my base load. Between the bike and Jeep I figure 6,500-7,000lbs cargo and then add water, fuel and all the other stuff. Right now I will be alone so it won't be as heavy as if there was more people.
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:09 PM   #39
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I'm not going to become a FullTime RV'r but will spend 6-9 months a year traveling. My plans are to go visit all the places I have been reading about for the past 30+ years and go 4wheeling in my Jeep. Plus when I am in an area where there are sights to see I'll use my bike. Kind of like setup a base came and then travel around and stay somewhere for maybe 2-4 weeks each time. And having the truck will allow me to go food shopping or on parts runs if I break something.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:12 PM   #40
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Since when? All I ever seem just had a turbo brake. They refer to it as engine brake but it works off of the turbo. True engine brakes works with the valves. Or perhaps should use the term Jac brakes
Potato/potato
The factories call them engine brakes. Whether the engine used the valves to create internal cyl back pressure or a shutter on the intake tract is does not matter. Its still an engine brake and functions appropriately for the loads the trucks are rated for. Even the 31k the bigger trucks can pull.



I understand your point of view that a larger truck is better but it becomes a exercise in mental gymnastics after a point. Where does it stop? A truck rated for 25k pulling and 5500k load is proper to tow a 21k load with 4500 pin weight.

Sure you could tow it with a 5 axle wrecker with a 150k rating But maybe a bigger one would be more stable.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:43 PM   #41
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I’m pulling my 45’ DRV toyhauler, (21,000+ pounds) HD Road Glide in the Garage with my 2017 RAM 3500, 411 gears and Aisin 6 speed. Does a great job.
DRV intentionally lightened their pin for the 3500. Several have reported swaying problems also.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:50 PM   #42
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Potato/potato
The factories call them engine brakes. Whether the engine used the valves to create internal cyl back pressure or a shutter on the intake tract is does not matter. Its still an engine brake and functions appropriately for the loads the trucks are rated for. Even the 31k the bigger trucks can pull.



I understand your point of view that a larger truck is better but it becomes a exercise in mental gymnastics after a point. Where does it stop? A truck rated for 25k pulling and 5500k load is proper to tow a 21k load with 4500 pin weight.

Sure you could tow it with a 5 axle wrecker with a 150k rating But maybe a bigger one would be more stable.
To make this comment you have never driven a truck with a jac brake. There is no comparison with an turbo brake. Without a trailer hooked up and it is activated on 1, it will launch you forward in the seat. And mine has 3 settings. I am not trying to talk him into a HDT. But for heavy weights I am for at least an MDT. Just showing an option, I have had ti both ways. The HDT and the Smart saves me thousands yearly. It is costly to drive a dually as a daily commute.
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