Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-15-2015, 07:47 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
California, licensing your large trucks and when to enter scales

It seems to me from my readings any Pickup or other like vehicle including a pickup or chassis cab that has had a RV hauler bed or pickup bed added and is over 11,500 lb. GVWR is required to stop at California weigh stations even when empty.

This would include Ford F350, F450 F550 and Ram 3500, 4500 and 5500 with either a pickup or hauler bed.

I'm planing to call the California Highway Patrol Commercial Vehicle Section to check this out on Monday.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DO THESE VEHICLES HAVE TO STOP AT THE SCALES?

PICKUP -- It depends on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), unladen weight, and bed of the truck.

GVWR under 11,500 pounds, unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more, or not equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- YES.

Discussion: According to CVC Section 471, pickups are a motor truck by definition, which is required to stop at the scales per CVC Section 2813. However, all California weigh stations have signs stating: "No Pickups." So, if a vehicle meet the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471, it is not required to stop at the scales because of the signs stating: "No Pickups." If the pickup has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds or more, an unladen weight 8,001 pounds, not equipped with an open-box type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length, or the pickup bed has been removed and a utility body or flat bed has been mounted, then it no longer meets the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471; it is then a "motor truck" under CVC Section 410 and required to stop at the weigh stations.

PICKUP WITH CAMPER SHELL -- NO (May have to stop under certain conditions. Contact California Highway Patrol Commercial Vehicle Section for verification (916-843-3400))

Discussion: It can also display passenger vehicle plates, as long as the cargo in the bed is not being hauled for compensation.

PICKUP WITH CAB / CREW CAB WITH BOX-TYPE BED -- YES

Discussion: The utility or box bed has to enter weigh stations.
__________________

__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-15-2015, 08:03 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Highway 4x4's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: La Verne, Calif
Posts: 2,172
i don't recall ever seeing pickup towing an RV of any type at the scales. I never have stopped and don't plan on it. Yep, I am risking it, just the rebel in me.
__________________

__________________
2014 Wind River 250RDSW
2014 Ram 2500 Diesel Laramie 4x4, Snugtop shell,
One big spoiled Bernese Mtn Dog
Highway 4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 08:51 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: No Cal
Posts: 324
Only commercial (for hire) vehicles are required to stop at Calif scales. RV's are exempt unless you're getting paid to deliver one.
__________________
Dan
14 AC Eagle DD-13
12 JKU Rubicon
exgman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 09:00 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
I understand that everyone says that but read the first post. It specifically says "GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more, or not equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- YES" which would cover the pickups I stated since they are all over 11,500 GVWR. There may be another section of the code that changes that but I've not found it.

If you had a pickup bed they likely would never notice it but if you had a RV hauler bet they would but then RV hauler beds are NOT pickups.

It was interesting that PA requires all Motorhomes and other large RVs to stop at scales.
__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2015, 11:41 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Highway 4x4's Avatar
 
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: La Verne, Calif
Posts: 2,172
If you want to pull in, go for it. Let us know what they say.
__________________
2014 Wind River 250RDSW
2014 Ram 2500 Diesel Laramie 4x4, Snugtop shell,
One big spoiled Bernese Mtn Dog
Highway 4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 12:49 AM   #6
Community Moderator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 14,024
The exerpt in the OP is out of context...those descriptions quoted, follow the summary that "Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop..."
See: Stopping at Scales
And, although pick-ups over 8,001lb are listed as Commercial vehicles, CalTrans reports (in the "Discussion" block) that all CA weight stations have signs saying - "No pick-ups".

But as always, CalTrans is not known for being easy to understand...so how about AAA:
Weigh Stations | AAA/CAA Digest of Motor Laws

RV's and pick-ups have entered CA weight scales...no harm. They will just wave you through (probaby just give you the green light).

Safe travels
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (Ret), Damon Outlaw #1193
I have seen gross intolerance shown in support of tolerance, Samuel Coleridge
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 01:33 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
UsualSuspect's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: California
Posts: 611
If you have a CAL T or ICC number, you stop, if you do not, you need to have on the side, "Not for hire". Only Commercially operated vehicles are required to stop, if it is registered to an individual you do not. I am not sure how they view LLC's, I would imagine an LLC is a Commercial venture by definition, and you would be required to get a CAL-T at the border and stop at the scales.
__________________
2007 Fleetwood Excursion 40E
2007 Chev Classic CC LB D/A - Toad
2013 Jeep Sahara Unlimited - Backup Toad
UsualSuspect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 04:33 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
Well, that was an interesting conversation I just had with the Commercial Enforcement Division of the CHP. I now have the "Real Story" about not only scales but the noncommercial licenses.

Lets cover licenses first since its quick. If you have a Class A noncommercial you're not allowed to drive a MH over 40'. If you have a Class B noncommercial license you're not allowed to drive a Class A noncommercial rig. If you want to drive both you need to be licensed as Class A then get a Class B endorsement or vice-verses. Bottom line is you need to take both tests both written and driving.

Now for driving through the scales in California. The condition that controls you have to enter the scales or not is "GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more".

Once you reach those conditions it does not matter how the vehicle is configured. Pickup beds don't matter any more, once you reach those limits you are required to stop.

So let's say you're driving your Ram 3500 or F450 diesel which has a GVWR of 14,400 lb, are they going to pull you over if you bypass the scales? Well it depends on the conditions. Most likely 90% of the time they won't even look at you but you can't depend on that.

There is however one condition that will allow you to bypass the scales. It may seem backwards but if you're towing your RV you don't have to stop. Whenever the RV is attached they don't consider the rig commercial assuming that you don't have a bunch of advertising plastered all over the outside.

So what happens if you get pulled over for bypassing the scales? If you explain that it's your private vehicle that you use to pull your RV, show your noncommercial Class A license or other documentation they should let you go without any tickets. They will remind you that you "technically" should have pulled in but that's about all they will do. So basically it's a slap on the wrist.

OMT, if you get stopped they generally don't look at GVWR and GCVWR so you likely won't be sited for that. However if you're in an accident being over weight won't enter into the report unless it was a factor that caused the accident.

If you are driving a 40' MH that's really closer to 41' you likely won't get sited for that. If you're driving a 45' MH you likely will since it's much more noticeable. Again if your in an accident and it's not a factor it will likely not be entered into the report but you could still get sited.

So for me this is the definitive answer for both the license and when to pull into scales. Others may disagree but this is how I read the CAVC and how the CHP Commercial Division enforces it.
__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 04:55 PM   #9
Community Moderator
 
Scarab0088's Avatar


 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 14,024

Great follow-up
...And, while approaching the weigh station - look for these little signs...

Click image for larger version

Name:	4624993853_7dfa040af3.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	160.1 KB
ID:	88697
Caltrans reports they are posted on every weigh station entry.

About the new part of this thread...CA Driver's licenses: It is good to see that the GVWR issue did not get into the mix. In some states GVWR is a factor, but in CA the license codes clearly read "Any Housecar..." with no reference to GVWR.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...dl648/dl648pt2
And, yes, if you are looking at a motorhome that is "over 40 feet", time for a new license, 'cuz the basic Class C is not good enough.

Safe travels
__________________
Kim and Steve, Mustang LCDR (Ret), Damon Outlaw #1193
I have seen gross intolerance shown in support of tolerance, Samuel Coleridge
https://www.irv2.com/attachments/signaturepics/sigpic84535_7.gif
WE LOVE OUR OUTLAW RV
Scarab0088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 05:19 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab0088 View Post

Great follow-up
...And, while approaching the weigh station - look for these little signs...

Attachment 88697
Caltrans reports they are posted on every weigh station entry.
Safe travels
The "No Pickups" Sign only applies for Pickups with a GVWR under 11,500 pounds, unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds as stated below. Over that and the "No Pickups" Sign does not apply. Again this is straight from the Commercial Devision of the CHP and the CAVC. In the following "NO" means you don't have to pull in.

GVWR under 11,500 pounds, unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more, or not equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- YES.
__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 05:31 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 15,082
Commercial plates stop. Non commercial plates....have a nice day unless you enjoy playing "big trucker"
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
A "Classic" 2014 Entegra Anthem 42RBQ
2016 Colorado Z71 PU
brobox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2015, 05:38 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
You can only get commercial plates on pickups in California unless it has a permanent camper or camper shell. If you take them off you have to put commercial plates back on.

I've been wondering if you could add a mini-camper to a F550 or 5500 so it could be registered as a MH but still be able to tow a 5er.
__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 07:09 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
Well when it rains it pours. Still have to do some more checking but it seems there are several other forms you need and/or may have to file when the vehicle goes over the magic 11,500 lb limit and in some cases 10,000 lbs.

California CA numbers:
There has been a lot on information I've read on the Internet if we need a California CA number on your rig. If you just read the forms it looks like you do. After talking to the CHP again I found out that we don't. He did agree that the code stating why we don't is hard to find so he gave me the information. It's VC Section 34601 (c) 2 (G). The one thing is that there are two version. The one currently in effect and the one going into effect on Jan 1, 2016. Here are the two versions.

Current:
(G) Motortrucks or two–axle truck tractors, with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds, operated solely to tow a camp trailer, trailer coach, fifthwheel travel trailer, trailer designed to transport watercraft, or utility trailer. Vehicle combinations described in this subparagraph are not subject to Section 27900, 34501.12, or 34507.5.
As of Jan 1, 2016:
(G) Vehicles never operated in commercial use, including motortrucks or two–axle truck tractors, with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds, when operated singly, or, when used to tow a camp trailer, trailer coach, fifth–wheel travel trailer, trailer designed to transport watercraft, or a utility trailer, never operated in commercial use. Vehicle combinations described in this subparagraph are not subject to Section 27900, 34501.12, or 34507.5.
FYI, what's in those sections?
V C Section 27900 Identification Required (has to do with marking on the vehicle)
V C Section 34501.12 Inspection of Maintenance Facility or Terminal
V C Section 34507.5 Carrier Identification Number

Technically from now till the end of the year you could say you need a CA number but since the CHP issues them they are going by the new law. That doesn't say that a local LEO won't write you up but it's likely you'll get out of the ticket since the CHP is not issuing CA numbers for personal use vehicles because the law is changing. I'd carry a copy of that section of the VC just to be safe.
The CVRA Form:
This is the one you declare the GVW or CGW of your rig. So using the 5500 as an example, it has a 19,500 GVWR and a GCWR of 37,500. Configured it going to weigh over the magic 8,100 limit. On the CVRA form you have to declare the GVW/CGW or declare under 10,001 lbs. First it's likely you'll be under 10,001 by the time you add the bed, hitch and any other miscellaneous stuff.

The question still is what do you put on the form. If your never pulling a commercial load do you need to declare the higher CGW? Do you have to put on the CVRA sticker? Those are questions to which I don't yet have any good answers but I'm looking. What I do know is that you must fill out the form and put something in those boxes.

Since we already know that when you're pulling an RV you don't need to stop at the scales since they no longer consider you commercial. Does that also mean they won't count your RV as a load for the CGW especially since you never get weighed because they don't want you in the scales? That's a question I have no answer for yet but I'm working on it.

So at this time and unless one has something to the contrary the CHP told me that before they would do anything they would have to weigh your rig. Since you don't have to enter the weigh station they have to reason to ticket you. However they could send you to a weigh station or bring out the portable scales and then they might ticket you. Without doing that more likely they would give you a warning to change your CVRA limits since he thinks you're over and let you go.

As it stands right now a 26,000 5er would cost you at least $500 more to tow due to the CVRA.
All of these rules are so totally confusing and the CHP agrees. One person I was talking to suggested that I contact Brian Kelly who is the Secretary of the California State Transportation Agency, they oversee the CHP, DMV and CalTrans, and let them know how hard it is to figure this out for someone that just wants to pull a large RV. So I'm going to do a writeup of what I've had to go through and what I suggest they do. On the top of that list will be that they create a web page specifically for RVers wanting to do this on the DMVs web site. Of course I'm going to suggest that RVers have a full or partial exemption from the CVRA as they did for CA numbers. I'd love it to be a full exemption but I'd be good with just not having to calculate fees based on pulling the RV.

If anyone has thoughts as to what else I should suggest fell free to send them to me.
__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2015, 01:40 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Timon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 981
Talked to the DMV about the CVRA and pulling an RV. I've not been able to totally back this up from the vehicle code but this is what a senior technician told me although I'm not sure I completely believe it.

They said one should only fill out the CVRA form with the amount of load I would carry, could be as low as the base 10,000, and not to use the amount that one would be pulling for the RV. If one was going to pull a non RV trailer then one should fill in the CVW one would be pulling.

As I said I still don't know if I totally believe them but it did come from a senior technician and it basically falls in line with the CHP not wanting us to enter the scales when pulling our RVs. It kinda looks like they took parts of the vehicle code, the DMVs RV handbook and other sections and pasted this together but no more so than what the CHP told me. At least it gives you a logical defense to tell an officer pulling you over.

If your vehicle unladen weight is close to the 10,000 limit to be safe you might one to declare the 10,001 to 15,000 weight class. This would also let you pull a non-RV trailer such as a boat, your spouse and even your pets without the chance you would be in violation.

As I was thinking about this one question came to mind. If commercial trailers are also subject to the CVRA then one would think that you only have to declare the CVW you would pull for non CVRA trailers and since trailer coaches are exempt they would not be included. Then this may have also entered in to the DMVs thinking when I discussed this with them.

As I've said before, all of this is very confusing.
__________________

__________________
John (N6BER), Joyce, Lucas (Golden Retriever mix), Bella (Great Pyrenees) and Lance (Great Pyrenees).
Tustin, CA
Timon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
california



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Went to the scales: Voltage 3600 V3600 Toy Haulers Discussion 2 11-24-2014 02:36 PM
CHP clamping down on drivers who avoid California fees Bullitt Full-Timers 30 07-11-2014 01:19 PM
California for RVers cucotx Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 3 05-04-2014 04:11 PM
California to Illinois baldtat Navigation, Routes & Roads 15 04-09-2014 08:02 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.