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Old 04-13-2012, 05:03 PM   #1
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Can my Ford F150 tow 7,000 lbs?

My wife and I are seriously considering buying a toy hauler that weighs 7,000 lbs dry. If we were to put our 900 lb. motorcycle in it would my Ford F150 5.4 V8 engine be adequate? I don't want to be underpowered with my TV. Thanks for any advice.
Jim
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:44 PM   #2
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Do not worry about the dry weight unless you plan to never add anything like clothes, food or toys. Actually you will be closer to GVWR on the trailer. With the 5.4L, it will depend on what axle ratio as to what you can actually pull, so you need to do your home work and work out the numbers after you gas up the truck, load it like for a normal trip and head to the scales and get the weight, total, front and rear axles.

Check the owners manual for the GCWR for you engine, axle and cab combo. The door jamb has the GVWR and the rear axle GAWR.

GCWR - loaded truck = max LOADED trailer weight....NOT DRY WEIGHT.
GVWR - loaded truck = Max loaded trailer hitch weight.

Your hitch weight should be about 12% of the trailers loaded weight.

After all of this, I would never attempt to pull a 7000# loaded trailer with your truck. I would max it out at 5000# loaded trailer....personal opinion.

The 5.4L is not a favorite engine of mine and I do not feel it is well suited to towing heavy. It also is very thirsty when towing..

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Old 04-13-2012, 05:49 PM   #3
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You need to find the CGVW ( combined gross vehicle weight) for your truck, then decide if the total weight of everything you plan to carry and tow will be under that number. There is more than just the power of the truck to consider, the ability of the suspension, brakes, and transmission are all factors to consider. It does sound like a lot for a F150.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #4
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You need to find the CGVW ( combined gross vehicle weight) for your truck, then decide if the total weight of everything you plan to carry and tow will be under that number. There is more than just the power of the truck to consider, the ability of the suspension, brakes, and transmission are all factors to consider. It does sound like a lot for a F150.
Another way of stating this is the tow capacity equals the GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when loaded and ready to tow or the capacity of the hitch, whichever is smaller.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
Do not worry about the dry weight unless you plan to never add anything like clothes, food or toys. Actually you will be closer to GVWR on the trailer. With the 5.4L, it will depend on what axle ratio as to what you can actually pull, so you need to do your home work and work out the numbers after you gas up the truck, load it like for a normal trip and head to the scales and get the weight, total, front and rear axles.

Check the owners manual for the GCWR for you engine, axle and cab combo. The door jamb has the GVWR and the rear axle GAWR.

GCWR - loaded truck = max LOADED trailer weight....NOT DRY WEIGHT.
GVWR - loaded truck = Max loaded trailer hitch weight.

Your hitch weight should be about 12% of the trailers loaded weight.

After all of this, I would never attempt to pull a 7000# loaded trailer with your truck. I would max it out at 5000# loaded trailer....personal opinion.

The 5.4L is not a favorite engine of mine and I do not feel it is well suited to towing heavy. It also is very thirsty when towing..

Ken
Really appreciated your advice. More than likely I won't be buying that 7,000 lb. Toy Hauler.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:00 PM   #6
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I would be more concerned with what a 900# motorcycle would do to my tongue weight..........
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #7
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The toyhaulers generally put that weight over the axles. There have actually been issues with a rear loaded toyhauler loosing to much hitch weight.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Horizonchase View Post
My wife and I are seriously considering buying a toy hauler that weighs 7,000 lbs dry.
As TXiceman noted, dry trailer weight is a useless bit of info. What is the GVWR of the trailer? The GVWR of the trailer is a good indication of how much the wet and loaded trailer will weigh in the middle of your third long RV trip.

You don't give enough info on your F-150, so I'll use 2006 F-150 with 5.4 engine, 3.55 axle ratio, SuperCrew and 4x4 as the truck. That truck has a GCWR of 14,000 pounds when properly equipped for towing with at least the basic tow pkg including transmission cooler. Subtract the weight of your wet and loaded F-150 from that and the answer is the most weight you can tow without being overloaded over the GCWR.

But you're limiter is probably the GVWR of the pickup. The GVWR is on the door sticker, and is probably around 7,600 pounds for a 4x4 SuperCrew 5.4L without the HD payload pkg. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded pickup from the GVWR and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

A 2006 F-150 with 5.4 engine, 3.55 axle ratio, SuperCrew and 4x4 probably weighs almost 7,000 pounds with a full tank of gas, family, tools and stuff in the pickup, and the shank and ball mount of your weight-distributing hitch in the receiver. Weigh the rig on a CAT scale to be sure.

If your truck weighs 7,000 pounds and the GVWR is 7,600, that leaves 600 pounds max hitch weight. 600 pounds hitch weight is a trailer with a GVWR less than 5,000 pounds. (For a ballpark estimate of max trailer weight of a "bumper pull" trailer you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle, divide the available payload for hitch weight by 12 percent. 600 divided by 0.12 = 5,000.)

If your truck weighs 7,000 pounds and the GCWR is 14,000, that leaves 7,000 pounds max trailer weight you could tow without exceeding the GCWR. So 7,000 pounds max trailer weight is your actual "tow rating", which is less than Ford's overstated tow rating of 8,100 or 8,200 pounds. But since GVWR and not GCWR is the limiter in this example, ignore the higher trailer weight of the "tow rating" and don't exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

So in a nutshell, if that's your truck, then that toy hauler is going to severely overload your tow vehicle.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:36 PM   #9
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What do the specs say? DUH
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
As TXiceman noted, dry trailer weight is a useless bit of info. What is the GVWR of the trailer? The GVWR of the trailer is a good indication of how much the wet and loaded trailer will weigh in the middle of your third long RV trip.

You don't give enough info on your F-150, so I'll use 2006 F-150 with 5.4 engine, 3.55 axle ratio, SuperCrew and 4x4 as the truck. That truck has a GCWR of 14,000 pounds when properly equipped for towing with at least the basic tow pkg including transmission cooler. Subtract the weight of your wet and loaded F-150 from that and the answer is the most weight you can tow without being overloaded over the GCWR.

But you're limiter is probably the GVWR of the pickup. The GVWR is on the door sticker, and is probably around 7,600 pounds for a 4x4 SuperCrew 5.4L without the HD payload pkg. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded pickup from the GVWR and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

A 2006 F-150 with 5.4 engine, 3.55 axle ratio, SuperCrew and 4x4 probably weighs almost 7,000 pounds with a full tank of gas, family, tools and stuff in the pickup, and the shank and ball mount of your weight-distributing hitch in the receiver. Weigh the rig on a CAT scale to be sure.

If your truck weighs 7,000 pounds and the GVWR is 7,600, that leaves 600 pounds max hitch weight. 600 pounds hitch weight is a trailer with a GVWR less than 5,000 pounds. (For a ballpark estimate of max trailer weight of a "bumper pull" trailer you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle, divide the available payload for hitch weight by 12 percent. 600 divided by 0.12 = 5,000.)

If your truck weighs 7,000 pounds and the GCWR is 14,000, that leaves 7,000 pounds max trailer weight you could tow without exceeding the GCWR. So 7,000 pounds max trailer weight is your actual "tow rating", which is less than Ford's overstated tow rating of 8,100 or 8,200 pounds. But since GVWR and not GCWR is the limiter in this example, ignore the higher trailer weight of the "tow rating" and don't exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

So in a nutshell, if that's your truck, then that toy hauler is going to severely overload your tow vehicle.
I cant thank you enough for that very useful info!! We have decided NOT to by the Toy Hauler. Glad I didn't!!
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:32 PM   #11
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Very interesting and useful thread. I have a few more questions for you knowledgeable fifth wheelers out there if you don't mind. I suppose these issues come up fairly regularly but I am kind of new to the sites so here goes.

I was going to go with a smaller lighter trailer but of course the missus wanted the 37' rear kitchen behemoth as we are going to be spending significant time in it over the next two years and possibly even longer if I use it for work.

Trailer 14000 dry + 2000 payload (we travel fairly light) at most
Pin weight 2500 - 3000 TBD after adding generator and washer-dryer.
Manufacturer says hitch weight 2500 dry, but it will definitely come in somewhere north of there.

TV is Ford F350 6.7L Super Duty Supercab 4WD SRW with factory tow package.
Specs say 3500 payload, GCWR 23500, 15900 max fifth wheel trailer weight, etc.

So the different websites put me within 5-10 percent of ideal, and many posters are switching to dualies for lighter trailers so what are my options. I switched from my winter tires to the stock tires that came with the pickup and see they are load range E. Should I invest in some heavy ply tires (ten ply?) for the TV? Waiting to hear if the trailer, a lot model, comes with disc brakes, know for certain shocks, dexter axles, probably electric. If the brakes are electric should I switch to disc brakes. The tires on the rig are load range G - this won't help towing but should I switch to J? I have pulled a trailer this heavy for thousands of miles with the F350 without problems and the Ford seems to have plenty of power barreling through the Rockies and the exhaust brakes are awesome. Still, this new trailer is a little heavier but maybe also a little better balanced, so what are my options? Smaller trailer, bigger truck, something a little less pricey?
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:30 AM   #12
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Trailer 14000 dry + 2000 payload (we travel fairly light) at most Pin weight 2500 - 3000 TBD after adding generator and washer-dryer. Manufacturer says hitch weight 2500 dry, but it will definitely come in somewhere north of there.
You didn't give the GVWR of the trailer. Trying to WAG the weight of the stuff your wife will load into the trailer is a sure way to be overloaded soon after you hit the road in the new rig.

Quote:
TV is Ford F350 6.7L Super Duty Supercab 4WD SRW with factory tow package.
Specs say 3500 payload, GCWR 23500, 15900 max fifth wheel trailer weight, etc.
Ford's max trailer weight (tow rating) is misleading. They assume a truck with no options and absolutely nothing in the truck but a skinny driver. So load the truck with evedryone and everything that will be in it when on the road - including 5er hitch. Go to a truckstop with a CAT scale, fill up with fuel, then weigh the wet and loaded TV. Subtract the weight of the truck from the GVWR to get available payload for hitch weight. Divide available payload for hitch weight by 18 percent to get max trailer weight if GVWR is your limiter. Subtract the weight of the truck from the GCWR to get max trailer weight if GCWR is the limiter. The lighter of the two weights you computed is the actual tow rating of your truck. Don't buy a 5er with a GVWR higher than the lightest of those two weights.

If you load the TV the same way I loaded mine, then it will probably weigh about 8,000 to 8,500 pounds before you tie on the 5er. If your wet and loaded TV weighs 8,500 pounds, that leaves 3,000 pounds for max hitch weight and 15,000 for max GVWR of the trailer. So in your case, the GCWR and not the GVWR of the truck is your limiter. But confirm the weight of your wet and loaded TV on a CAT scale before you decide.

I suspect the 5er your Darling Wife wants has a GVWR of more than 15,000 to 15,500. If it does, then find a lighter trailer.

Quote:
Should I invest in some heavy ply tires (ten ply?) for the TV?
Load range E is the same as the older ten ply rating. But tires are not a problem. If you don't overload the truck over the GVWR of the truck, then you won't be close to the weight limits of the stock tires.

Trailer tires are whole 'nother matter. Most stock trailer tires are barely adequate for the GVWR of the trailer, and speed limited to 65 MPH. I've blow out too many stock trailer tires, so I insist on about 20% excess weight capacity on the trailer tires, and speed rating of "Q", which is 99 MPH. But trailer tires with that much excess weight capacity usually requires wheels to match the width and PSI of the new tires. So both my 5er and my cargo trailer have higher capacity tires and wheels that result in at least 20% fudge factor and Q speed rating, and I've had no tire problems on either of those trailers.

Darling Daughter is living in the 5er now, so we bought a new TT for RVing. It has stock tires with more than 20% excess load capacity, but not Q speed rating. So I'll probably try to find tires of the same size but with Q speed rating before we hit the road to Knoxville and Detroit around Memorial Day.

Quote:
If the brakes are electric should I switch to disc brakes.
No. Old fashioned drum brakes with electric actuators are perfectly adequate if you use the exhaust brake when coming down the mountain. Never "ride the brakes", but instead mash hard on them to kill speed, then coast against the exhaust brake to allow the trailer brakes to cool off. If the exhaust brake doesn't maintain a slow enough speed, then mash hard again to kill several MPH, then get off the brakes.

Quote:
Smaller trailer, bigger truck, something a little less pricey?
If you will be overloaded over either the GVWR or GCWR of the TV, then you need either more truck or less trailer. But don't WAG the weights. Use the CAT scale to determinee the actual weight of the wet and loaded TV, and the GVWR of the trailer to estimate the wet and loaded weight of the trailer. Then after you get on the road with the wet and loaded trailer, confirm your weights by using the CAT scale frequently.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:25 AM   #13
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Thanks much for the input. The max GVWR of the trailer is 18750 so your point about the weight is well taken.

Forgive my ignorance but what is WAG?

Now let me see if I understand you correctly.e

The hitch weight at the dealer is 2750. The GVWR of my tow vehicle is 11500 and we can bet the weight of the TV is 8500 loaded (if I'm lucky) since it is LWB with a heavy deer catcher on the front. So I basically am at the edge of my TV's payload capacity with a little room (maybe). The GCWR as presented by Ford is 23500, which means I am left with a GVWR for the trailer of no more than 15000. And the dry weight of the trailer is 14400. We really are light travellers, but not that light. Am I understanding you correctly? I want to make MY Darling Wife happy, and the trailer could be our home for extended periods, especially after we sell our old place, but I don't want to violate the laws of nature or any state or federal laws either. The slightly lighter trailer (about 1000 lbs) was a little more nose heavy but I pulled it through the Rockies without complaint, but it looks like I would be a lot better off with a heavier TV or at least dualies on an F350. Is that about it?

Again thanks for the help.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #14
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Thanks much for the input. The max GVWR of the trailer is 18750 so your point about the weight is well taken.
Yep, that's too much tailer for your tow vehicle.

Quote:
Forgive my ignorance but what is WAG?
Wild a** guess.

Quote:
...which means I am left with a GVWR for the trailer of no more than 15000.
Yep.

Quote:
And the dry weight of the trailer is 14400. We really are light travellers, but not that light. Am I understanding you correctly?
Yep. I think you got it.

Quote:
I want to make MY Darling Wife happy, and the trailer could be our home for extended periods, especially after we sell our old place, ...
Gotta keep Darling Wife happy, so let's work on the numbers to spec out the new tow vehicle for that trailer.

18,750 trailer plus 9,000 dually tow vehicle = 27,750 = minimum GCWR required to tow that trailer the third time you move it from one job to another.

Ford makes it.

For used TVs you could go back to the 2008.5 or later F-450 diesel pickup, which had 33,000 GCWR. For F-350 DRW, you have to buy at least a 2011 diesel to get 29,000 GCWR. If you want a new one, then look at the 2012 F-350 DRW with diesel engine - it has 30,000 GCWR.

Quote:
... but it looks like I would be a lot better off with a heavier TV or at least dualies on an F350. Is that about it?
Yep. But not just any F-350 DRW. Before 2011 model year they had only the same 23,500 GCWR you have on your SRW, unless they had the TowBoss pkg with 4.30 rear axle and 26,000 GCWR. But even the TowBoss pkg is not enough for your monster trailer, so if you look for a used F-350 DRW, be sure it is at least a 2011 model. Or if it were me, I'd probably bite the bullet and order a brand new F-350 DRW diesel with 30,000 GCWR. By ordering, you can keep the price down by ordering only the trim level and options you can't live without. If money is tight, go for the XL trim with optional cloth seats and cruise control, plus the diesel engine. Here's one I built&priced on Ford.com:

$41,860 2012 F-350 DRW SuperCab 4x2, 6.7L diesel, 3.73 axle, DRW
595 XL value pkg (includes cruise control)
895 power pkg (locks, windows, trailer tow mirrors)
370 trailer hitch prep
1695 Reese Elite 25k 5er hitch
Incl integrated trailer brake controller
Incl running boards
100 cloth seats
995 frt
(1,000) rebate
----------
$45,510 MSRP
4,551 ten percent discount is easy to negotiate
--------
$40,959 cash price before TT&L
=======

Of course that's an almost bare-bones tow vehicle, but with the XL value pkg, power pkg and cloth seats it's almost an XLT but for a lot less than the $4,000 XLT trim would cost. You may want to pay for and get fancier trim and options. But if the budget says that's the limit, then that will be an excellent workhorse for you.
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