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Old 06-20-2016, 12:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jamesrxx951 View Post
That may be true to the letter but all details are i.portent when looking at tow ratings. Sure the 3500 does have a J2807 higher tow rating but that is by a mere 10lbs. Not the real issues are in the details. That is only with the shortest truck ram makes. Short bed, single cab and 2 wd. If you want more than a sack lunch in there, you cannot. In fact the max tow ram is shorter than a max tow F150. I don't know about you but I would much rather not tow over 30K with something the size of a side by side 4 wheeler. The Ford F450 Superduty is still a class 3 truck because it is rated at 14K GVW. Puts it in the class 3 range. However it is a 4 door truck and long bed for the best towing stability.

All diesels and transmissions are in medium duty trucks. Ford's 6.7L with the 6R140 are used in medium duty trucks. The Duramax with allison is a medium duty combo. Remember, the Cummins in the ram is not the same as in the medium duty trucks. They are but to a different spec and factory. I would like to see a medium duty truck with a aisin trans. I have heard they are out there but I have not seen any. And I work with medium duty trucks every day. Allison has the market my a large margin as far as automatic transmissions go in medium duty. But there may be a reason why aisin is not the majority.
The ONLY difference between the Cummins 6.7 for the RAM or for the Freightliner is the color paint they use on them along with the programing. I took the Factory tour about one month ago. The adapter plate thats bolted to the back of the engine is different also.

The Aisin is a much heavier duty trans than the GM pickup Allison. They use a different model on their Kodiak's. The Allison in other Medium duty applications is a different model also.

Ford does make a very solid trans.

Show me another truck off the showroom floor that is Class 3 that would not have their butt dragging and need air bags. Mine with the factory air ride looks like the pic above with or without a load.

EVERY F450 and 350 towing a Mobile Suites of any size I have came across had to have air bags.

My RAM 11 HO Dually with 4,500# pin pictured below did NOT have bags.

FYI RAM does not make a SHORT bed Dually with a STANDARD cab.

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Old 06-20-2016, 12:37 PM   #30
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Really, you most know more than the Cummins engineer who took me on a tour of the CMEP (Cummins Mid-Engine range Plant) in Columbus IN. Since he pointed out that this was the only plant that produced the 6.7L Cummins engine and that Freightliner and the Ram engines where built on the same line. The only difference in them was the ECM's and the engines were painted Red verse being clear coated for Ram. They used the same piston, connecting rods, crank shaft, block, head, and all other components that are internal to the engine. At least that is what the Cummins engineer stated.
I was told and shown the exact same thing. FYI RAM wants the engine oil left in the engines and Freightliner wants it drained.

They do NOT run the engines they hook up a 100 hp motor and test all systems. RAM says if they run the engine to them it would be considered used. Weird!
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:30 PM   #31
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The ONLY difference between the Cummins 6.7 for the RAM or for the Freightliner is the color paint they use on them along with the programing. I took the Factory tour about one month ago. The adapter plate thats bolted to the back of the engine is different also.

The Aisin is a much heavier duty trans than the GM pickup Allison. They use a different model on their Kodiak's. The Allison in other Medium duty applications is a different model also.

Ford does make a very solid trans.

Show me another truck off the showroom floor that is Class 3 that would not have their butt dragging and need air bags. Mine with the factory air ride looks like the pic above with or without a load.

EVERY F450 and 350 towing a Mobile Suites of any size I have came across had to have air bags.

My RAM 11 HO Dually with 4,500# pin pictured below did NOT have bags.

FYI RAM does not make a SHORT bed Dually with a STANDARD cab.
G]
The guys at Cummins seems to disagree with you on the medium duty engine vs ram engine. They are built in different factories. However I never asked the exact differences because I really did not care about the Ram version. Now there has to be some differences because the power band is different in the medium duty 6.7L and the Ram version. For instance the medium duty is a out of RPM around 1000 less than the Ram version. Not to mention the medium duty versions have different components themselves depending on power ratings.

If I'm mistaken about the bed size I stand corrected, but the last time I looked it up the wheel base was shorter than a max tow F150.


The factory installed air bags are a neat idea but they can be easily added to any Ford or GM truck. We use the fully automatic versions on many of our heavy hauler pickup trucks just to keep the rear end from sagging. Not a big issue to install.


According to our allison dealer he said the allison 1000 and the allison 2200 are the same inside. The 1000 is the GM version and the 2200 is in the medium duties. Now when you get to the 2500 allison it is no longer a cable engagement and only electric with no park. When it comes to mods, the allison 1000 is very limited when compared to Fords 6R140. The Ford transmission. Holds a lot more power. As far as the aisin, I'm not sure about power handling. I have seen several websites offer upgrades for it because they claim to have some weakness.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:36 PM   #32
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Fyi I did take a 2015 ram dually that a friend of mine bought for a spin. The inside was pretty nice and for an online 6 the acceleration was not bad athing all. It was a 4 door dually. Now for ride, I actually thought it was dangerous. The rear end is so stiff you hit bumps and rough road it was all over the place. I'm sure it would have been much better loaded. He came from a 6.0L dually with a ton of miles on it. He said the Cummins did better on fuel economy empty but the 6.0L was better by several MPG. He has had the exact same setup for years so the only difference was truck. The extra torque did get up and go a little better to. I was shocked to here the 6.0L did better mpg towing though.
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Old 06-20-2016, 04:33 PM   #33
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Fyi I did take a 2015 ram dually that a friend of mine bought for a spin. The inside was pretty nice and for an online 6 the acceleration was not bad athing all. It was a 4 door dually. Now for ride, I actually thought it was dangerous. The rear end is so stiff you hit bumps and rough road it was all over the place. I'm sure it would have been much better loaded. He came from a 6.0L dually with a ton of miles on it. He said the Cummins did better on fuel economy empty but the 6.0L was better by several MPG. He has had the exact same setup for years so the only difference was truck. The extra torque did get up and go a little better to. I was shocked to here the 6.0L did better mpg towing though.

Were his tires at max psi or something? I haven't noticed my Ram dually bouncing all over the place in any capacity.

I had a 2006 6.0 leaker F350 for about 65,000 miles. I'm having a difficult time believing that your friend is getting much more than 14 mpg with a stock engine based on my experience. But, with all the problems I had, I don't believe anything anyone says when it comes to complimenting the trucks doomed with that engine. Boy did I hate that piece of absolute garbage that Ford threw in their pickup.
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:16 PM   #34
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Well I guess I am a LIAR!!! The 6.7 for the RAM and the Freightliner that I would assume you would agree on is a TRUE medium duty application are BOTH ASSEMBLED in Columbus, IN at the CMEP engine plant. The lady that did the tour (not her normal duty) was VERY specific that the ONLY real difference was the computer programming and the color of the paint.

[moderator edit] the Aisin is used in many medium duty applications. A direct quote from Chryslers head west coast warranty rep when asked about the Aisin "they don't break".

As far as ride being so rough "IF" that was the case he had the rear tires aired to 80. Or you were in an older Dually. My 3500 with factory rear air rides as well and a bit better than a friends 3500 GMC SRW. Sure you can add bags. But this system is a much better riding system since there are only two full length leaves and two short leaves on each side.

The GM twins Allison is NOT the same as the one that used to be behind the Cummins in the F650 and 750's. THAT was a Medium duty application per you.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:06 PM   #35
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Were his tires at max psi or something? I haven't noticed my Ram dually bouncing all over the place in any capacity.

I had a 2006 6.0 leaker F350 for about 65,000 miles. I'm having a difficult time believing that your friend is getting much more than 14 mpg with a stock engine based on my experience. But, with all the problems I had, I don't believe anything anyone says when it comes to complimenting the trucks doomed with that engine. Boy did I hate that piece of absolute garbage that Ford threw in their pickup.
I can only assume he had the tire pressures close to the max. Since he tows a lot either he tows with under inflated tires or keeps them high most of the time. I cannot say I know anyone that always adjust air pressure per load like you technically should. At first I thought the ride was decent but just as I ended my sentence to him the bounce fest started up.

Your 6.0L should get much better than 14 mpg. My sisters with 300K is 15.5 combined not towing. I just replaced the first set of injectors on it a few months ago. That was the first time the valve covers were ever taken off.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:14 PM   #36
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I can only assume he had the tire pressures close to the max. Since he tows a lot either he tows with under inflated tires or keeps them high most of the time. I cannot say I know anyone that always adjust air pressure per load like you technically should. At first I thought the ride was decent but just as I ended my sentence to him the bounce fest started up.

Your 6.0L should get much better than 14 mpg. My sisters with 300K is 15.5 combined not towing. I just replaced the first set of injectors on it a few months ago. That was the first time the valve covers were ever taken off.


There is a reason I only had it for the miles I did, haha. Started being in the shop more than it was on the road. Glad hers is serving her well though. Never fun to see people have car trouble.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:30 PM   #37
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There is a reason I only had it for the miles I did, haha. Started being in the shop more than it was on the road. Glad hers is serving her well though. Never fun to see people have car trouble.
Hers is an 05. But with you having a 06 I am surprised you had the issues you did. But I guess you did not mention what issues you had. They are known for injector issues but I think they can be kept under control. HUEI injectors beat the tar our of engine oil. So oil changes are a must. If you ever had an oil sample done you would see the oil is just plane wore out if changed per the schedule. Our internationals also had severe injector issues. Once I changed over to full syn 5-40 oil, injector life, performance, and noise was noticeably better. I still expect them to fail at some point but injectors do have a service life. 80-90K was about the limit on our duramax injectors. But since they were HPCR injectors oil was not as critical.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:21 PM   #38
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My vote is for the Ram 3500. Reason is the Solid Front Axle and the Mega Cab.
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:07 AM   #39
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Well I guess I am a LIAR!!! The 6.7 for the RAM and the Freightliner that I would assume you would agree on is a TRUE medium duty application are BOTH ASSEMBLED in Columbus, IN at the CMEP engine plant. The lady that did the tour (not her normal duty) was VERY specific that the ONLY real difference was the computer programming and the color of the paint.

[moderator edit] the Aisin is used in many medium duty applications. A direct quote from Chryslers head west coast warranty rep when asked about the Aisin "they don't break".

As far as ride being so rough "IF" that was the case he had the rear tires aired to 80. Or you were in an older Dually. My 3500 with factory rear air rides as well and a bit better than a friends 3500 GMC SRW. Sure you can add bags. But this system is a much better riding system since there are only two full length leaves and two short leaves on each side.

The GM twins Allison is NOT the same as the one that used to be behind the Cummins in the F650 and 750's. THAT was a Medium duty application per you.
Well if you want an answer to your statement then yes, I have not seen or heard any info to back up what you claim. Last I checked we were having a discussion. But I guess it has to be your way or you throw a temper tantrum.

For one thing maybe the person giving the tour caters to who they are doing a tour for. Maybe they know the ram guys wants to know they have the same engine as a medium duty truck and the medium duty guys don't want to have a pickup truck engine. When I bid out the last freightliners I chose the 6.7L. But I did not have a choice of more than 265 HP and 660 tq. If I wanted more I had to go the ISL 9. Maybe next time I go to the factory I will ask to see the ram room where they build the ram 6.7.


IA direct quote from Chryslers head west coast warranty rep when asked about the Aisin "they don't break".

To be fair I will not take a fiat reps word for anything. They are sales people and obviously wants to promote their brand.

But maybe you can post some links where the aisin is in a medium duty truck. I do not remember even being offered the aisin for Freightliner or International. Maybe some low cab forward stuff but trucks like HINO I know have been having issues (dealer is down the street from me). But I have no interest in those trucks so I don't know what is in them.


The GM twins Allison is NOT the same as the one that used to be behind the Cummins in the F650 and 750's. THAT was a Medium duty application per you

Like I said, the dealer said the Allison 1000 has the same internals as the 2200 that you find in many medium duty trucks. It is when you get into the higher class GVW trucks or higher TQ you need to go to the 2500 series transmission. They told me some of the changes but since they do not have a gear shift they cannot work for our application. We have to have gear shift with parking pawl.

Now if you want to have a conversation feel free to write back but if you want beat your chest and want a trophy for owing a ram don't bother.

FYI with either choice the OP is asking about I would chose GM hands down. The Duramax is a stout engine and the GM is solid truck. fiat is way to up in the air for me. Especially with them having a ton of different owners and Sergio trying to sell of the brand and try to force GM into buying fca.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:07 PM   #40
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Can I get a trophy too?
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:04 PM   #41
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You guys are funny. There is not enough difference in the top three New HD trucks to argue about. The air ride is a very nice option and only available stock on Dodge. Aisin better than Allison, personal opinion. Failure rate is nearly zip on both. I have seen failures on Allison but they had 150+hp tuners on them. Also I am not prejudice in this. I don't own either.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:06 PM   #42
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To the OP. Don't be concerned about brand. Just look for the one with the Cummins in it.��. Also I just read where GM reduced the warranty by 40,000 miles. I guess they just don't have faith in what they build.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wait-wh...miles-shorter/
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