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Old 08-06-2013, 02:24 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
I doubt Ken meant what you thought he meant. The engineered numbers such as GVWR and GCWR are not overstated.

The engineers didn't come up with the tow ratings and payload ratings - marketing types did that with the full encouragement of management.

this man speaks the truth. However if you exceed GCWR you wont be breaking any laws..... you will just be a slow poke going up hills and possibly overheat.




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Originally Posted by Fast0ne View Post
Anyways. I called my local weigh scale station. Now mind you I am in vancouver B.C. Canada.

I was told that as long at your travel trailer does not exceed your trucks GVWR. They will not bother you. And as long as your mirrors extend past the TT and you can see behind you you are fine.

The only time will you get pulled over is if they see a TV and TT that do not look properly set up. Or a over loaded situation.

.

This man also speaks the truth and that was exactly what i was told too living in Ontario. GVWR, front and rear GAWR and all your safety gear is what is important.



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Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
Here are some facts: The vehicle manufacturer gives the user 4 ratings (GCWR, GVWR, front GAWR and rear GAWR) and specifically states not to exceed ANY of them. As far as I'm concerned, as long as I stay on the left side of those ratings, then I'm on pretty safe ground. When I start pushing to the right on any of them, I'm walking myself into a gray area where I don't have empirical data on just how far I can go, and the farther I go the higher the risks.

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This man is right too.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:36 PM   #44
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Also here is another interesting but of info on being underrated for towing.

When the chevy colorado was introduced everyone said the inline 5 was junk because it could only tow 4000 pounds. But all of a sudden in 2007 they came out with the 3.7 inline 5 and the tow capacity shot to 5000 pounds tow capacity. But the odd thing was the GCVW was the same and did not change from 9000 pounds.

But in 2008 they changed the factory rear hitch and the front brakes got a bit bigger. The weight went up to 5500 pounds for the Inline 5 and 6000 pounds for the 5.3 v8 option GCVW went to 9500 pounds.

But when gm first started sales on the colorado. They stated that anyone wanting to tow more that 4000 pound would buy a full size truck. The real resone for this is back in the s10 days with the 4.3 v6 ppl were towing lots with this set up and sales fell on the 1500. So underrate the colorado and then when sales slump all of a sudden the weight rating goes up.

Sorry for the long post. But ppl need to understand that vehicles are underrated to a degree and TT are also. And as long as you find the happy medium you will be fine. And don't put all your faith in a sales person and do your own home work before rushing out to buy your new TT.
so true. Also the crown vic had a tow rating of 5000lbs for decades until Ford decided they wanted people to buy one of there trucks to tow instead so they changed the tow rating to 2000lbs with no mechanical changes to the car in the late 90's. GVWR stayed the same.

then at the other end of the spectrum what about the new SVT F150 raptor with a tow rating of 8000lbs! The thing has almost 11.6 inches of super soft suspension travel, huge 35 inch off road tires, and very high center of gravity... and that is suppose to be a good tv for 8000lbs just because it has F150 in the name and a big engine? ya right.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #45
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It is certainly enlightening that so many people towing trailers know more about the limits on the trucks than the engineers that design them. I'll go with the engineering numbers and forget the marketing hype on tow ratings every time.

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Old 08-06-2013, 08:25 PM   #46
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I am not saying to not listen or follow the manufacture guide lines.

I am stating in B.C. That as long as you are following the numbers posted on your truck. And numbers on your TT you will not be givin any tickets. And they won't just haul you off to a scale to find out the accurate numbers.

And I am sorry but a big percent of truck and tralier owners will never go to the scales to see what there truck and trailer weights are.

And as far as being a slow poke going up the hill. How many motor homes have I been stuck behind. And let's think back to the toyota with a big motor home attached to it. It was slow as hell going up any hill or flat land.

I am not here to say I am right by any means. But tow vehicles in this day in age have changed some. And travel trailers have also changed.

Sorry to the OP for all this.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:58 PM   #47
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It would be nice if more truck/trailer owners new the correct laws and regulations for towing, what their weights, and knew how to be safer.

It's perfectly fine going up a hill slowly, as long as it can keep from starting backwards, and as long as it can stop going forwards on the other side.

Tow vehicles have changed, and so have trailers. TVs are smaller and bigger, and trailers are smaller and bigger, and usually not paired correctly due to lack of knowledge and group mentality that if they all did it, it's ok.

I don't think an apology is needed, cause Gus just asked for thoughts on all this. There's lots of thoughts to go around.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:48 PM   #48
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Again my first TV was a 5 speed ranger rated at 2500 lbs trailer. The very same model truck with automatic transmission was rated for 5600 lbs. The clutch capacity was the limiting factor. But for me I rather tow hard with a standard. In 3 years I had no towing issues with that truck. On one trip south of 1700 miles I noticed my drive shaft was vibrating on heavy acceleration when we were on the first miles of the trip. I never told my buddy in the other TV and made the trip towing the 5600 lbs 5th wheel. Dropped the shaft before my return and greased the universals and made it back safely. Replace the universals when I was home. Its not what others tell me what I can haul but what I feel is right. If power is there, next check the heating. Most automatic TV will overheat when overloaded. That is why my choice of TVs has always been standards even when largely underrated.
The local milkman had a standard GM 1500 that he had overloaded for its entire lifetime. Now imagine delivering milk house to house all day with a standard. Well after 300k miles he had the engine overhauled and asked the mechanic to check the clutch. The mechanic could no believe the great condition it was in for being the original. The driver surely makes the difference.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:54 PM   #49
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Answers?

I should have never asked the question.... What I can gather from the "conversation" is that I should have followed my instincts the day I got the weight (via scales) and weighed the total TV & TT ....also.

To those who mention that the 'guy' is a newbie....well, perhaps. In my life ....two pop-ups, two TTs, two Class A's. ....but newbie in the sense that I'm always learning and not afraid to get other people opinions. This time with a little puzzlement as to who actually wanted to answer.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
I should have never asked the question.... What I can gather from the "conversation" is that I should have followed my instincts the day I got the weight (via scales) and weighed the total TV & TT ....also.

To those who mention that the 'guy' is a newbie....well, perhaps. In my life ....two pop-ups, two TTs, two Class A's. ....but newbie in the sense that I'm always learning and not afraid to get other people opinions. This time with a little puzzlement as to who actually wanted to answer.
You did the right thing. The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

My answer to your original post was simple: If you're "Close to Maximum" as your thread's title would imply, you need to weigh. If you're over weight, you need to take action; either reduce your weight, or increase your capacity. Simple!
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
I should have never asked the question.... What I can gather from the "conversation" is that I should have followed my instincts the day I got the weight (via scales) and weighed the total TV & TT ....also.

To those who mention that the 'guy' is a newbie....well, perhaps. In my life ....two pop-ups, two TTs, two Class A's. ....but newbie in the sense that I'm always learning and not afraid to get other people opinions. This time with a little puzzlement as to who actually wanted to answer.
I made the same mistake. Except worse. I was little overweight and didn't scale it, and made the mistake of asking for advice.

I really stepped into up to my neck with that one.

I knew some wouldn't be happy, but by the end i felt like i asked to date their daughters. I think if they could have got to me, id been nailed to a cross and set on fire.

End result for me is i stressed over a lot of nothing. Had a good weekend and that's what its all about.

Next time I'll be careful what I ask :-)
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:32 PM   #52
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Talking about weight capacities is up there with discussing gun control, politics, abortion and all the other "nono" topics.

I am with TXiceman, Skip426, SmokyWren, RustyJC and the others that believe in being under on all of the weight capacities. I will never tow over the limits and nothing anyone can say will convince me otherwise. For those on the other side of the fence, nothing the "weight police" (I hate that term, it's so condescending and insulting) will ever change their minds nor will factual info. I just want to drive down the road knowing that nothing is going to break or wear out prematurely, that I can stop okay and can make safe evasive maneuvers. I want to ensure our family is protected and that of others on the road around me. I also want to know that if I were ever to get in an accident I would never be blamed for being negligently overloaded.

I really doubt that weight limits and capacities are airy-fairy numbers that are finalized by marketing and management people. I'm also an engineer (not mechanical) and I am also familiar with safety margins that are built into engineering designs. Engineers come up with limits and capacities to protect you, the general public. They know that no matter what, some just don't want to follow limits and capacities or are just totally unaware of them. If an engineer were to not design in safety factors, they would be negligent.

Towing near the max. towing capacity is generally not a good idea. If all you do is drive on flat ground and you don't go on long trips, you may never feel overloaded. But if you drive on hills, you will definitely find the TV struggling. Our last TV + TT was 500 lbs under the max. tow cap. It was horrible on hills. On steep hills, we could only make 30-35 mph and the engine was running flat out and then some. I thought it was going to explode at any moment. The handling was not very good either. I could definitely feel the TT being too heavy and will never tow like that again.

Why not just be smart and take a run through a scale and see what your weights are? It's better to know exactly where you stand on weights and then you can decide if you want to tow overloaded and by how much.

Payload capacities assigned to trucks and dry weights on trailers are meaningless. It's all smoke and mirrors by vehicle and trailer manufacturers in order to garner more sales. TV manufacturers push towing capacities and not payload, GVWR or axle ratings. Trailer manufacturers brag about their lightweight models and the dry weights. And some are now using "1/2 ton towable" labels. It's almost criminal what is being done. One good example is the KZ Durango 5th wheel line that is "1/2 ton towable" which have GVWRs up to 10,800 lbs. I doubt many, if any, 1/2 ton trucks can handle a pin weight of something like 1500 - 2000 lbs actual wt. Our 3/4 ton would not manage one.

Going through a scale with our new TV and TT was an eye opener. The tongue wt. is nearly double the factory dry wt. The TT total actual wt. is 200 lbs under the GVWR loaded for camping. All the options we ordered added a lot of weight and there is NO way of knowing how much until you get the unit. The truck has an actual payload capacity of nearly 1,000 lbs less than what the door jamb sticker says. Factory options, dealer and owner accessories and cargo reduce the actual capacity.

When it comes to travel trailers, tow vehicles and weight limits and capacities, it's a crazy world. No one out there is taking the lead to ensure that all TT and TV owners know about and understand wt. limits and capacities. The only way I learned about it is by reading RV forums.

At the end of the day, I can sleep at night knowing I am not endangering our or anyone else's safety, cannot get in trouble with the law and am not over-stressing the TV or TT. If some take exception to this approach, whatever. Apologies for the long and late post....
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #53
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Well said.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:37 AM   #54
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You will never appreciate being within your weight limits until you run into a situation that requires it. I was doing 67mph with 1ton and towing 12,600 lb 37' trailer when a truck pulled out to cross the road with just a few seconds to spare and brakes from me. Worst thing was a minivan pulled pug at the same time right in front of me. Thankfully the left lane was open (no uncoming traffic) so I could go around them. If there had been traffic there is no way I could have stopped in time
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:56 PM   #55
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You will never appreciate being within your weight limits until you run into a situation that requires it. I was doing 67mph with 1ton and towing 12,600 lb 37' trailer when a truck pulled out to cross the road with just a few seconds to spare and brakes from me. Worst thing was a minivan pulled pug at the same time right in front of me. Thankfully the left lane was open (no uncoming traffic) so I could go around them. If there had been traffic there is no way I could have stopped in time
Me and my friend were approaching Richmond on H95 on the way to SC when an Escort lost control on wet pavement and skid sideways in front of us.
I put the brakes and came to a stop 10 feet from the driver door. But with expectations of beeing hit from behind by my friend that was cruising behind me. Instead I was so relieved that he past me on the right at 60mph.
I had a 1/2 ton with a 6k lbs 5th wheel in tow with 800lbs pin weight. He had a Dodge 3500 Duelly with a 8k lbs 5th wheel with 1200 lbs pin weight.
He later told me that as soon as he saw my brake lights he tried to stop but the rear wheels just slid like on ice so he had to stop braking and switched lane to the right and passed me without any concerns of the possibility of a vehicle on his right.
From that day I determined that if I was going to pull a 5th wheel I better have the rear tires fully loaded and well maintained brakes like I had that day.
I was able to save the life of that man while the road condition were at its worst and while the unit I was driving responded properly.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #56
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He had a Dodge 3500 Duelly with a 8k lbs 5th wheel with 1200 lbs pin weight.
He later told me that as soon as he saw my brake lights he tried to stop but the rear wheels just slid like on ice so he had to stop braking and switched lane to the right and passed me without any concerns of the possibility of a vehicle on his right.
It has nothing to do with "tire loading". Early 2nd generation Dodge Ram 2500s and 3500s did NOT have rear anti-lock brakes; anti-lock functioned on the front wheels only.

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