Confused By the Salesman! Inquiring about F-250 Towing Capacity

[NevadaNick]

With the right combination tractor trailers in Nv you can go to 129,000 lbs, do you think all those trucks are rated for that ? I have personally been across scales at over 33,000 lbs with a F250 with no consequences. The real world operates a bunch different than rv forum talk.

[fvstringpicker]

Here's what is never talked about when the discussion leads to the legal consequences of overloading. It seems to center around "suits due to exceeding the sticker". Consider this. States typically require a class A or equivalent for towing with a combination weight rating of 26,001 (as measured by the sum of the GVWR of both vehicles in addition to towing more than 10,000 pounds). I think a good standing for a law suit, punitive damages, would be on the basis that the tow driver, with a class C license, did not meet the proper qualifications for driving a combination rig exceeding 26,000 lbs., GCWR. (Bear in mind the DOT goes by stated GVWR rather than actual weight)
I'd be checking two things other than actual weight, 1.The GVWR of both vehicles 2. The class of the tow driver's licenses. If they were selling goods at rallys, I'd try to nail them on CDL.

[tuffr2]

Knowing what I know, you can bet if an overweight rig runs over me in my car I will own that person.

[Gavenger]

I think what NevadaNick and JIMNLIN are missing is that if you are overweight, the enforcement officer at most will give you a ticket. There is an bonus for CA, if you are driving with a Class C license and towing a trailer with a *GVWR* of over 10,000#, you may also get your vehicle and trailer impounded. But they will only catch that if you get pulled over for something else.

The real issue is when you are in an accident and another party is involved. THAT party is going to investigate whether you are overloaded, and if you are, YOU get to pay through the nose for everything they can fit onto the lawsuit. Because the US has devolved into "find the nearest and most efficient lawsuit you can get" so you don't have to work anymore.

If someone cuts you off and you fail to stop in time, without witnesses or a dashcam, it is your word against theirs. And if you are overloaded, that could be the deciding factor on who the court thinks is telling the truth.

A brand new Platinum F350 dually will be cheap compared to what the opposing counsel will extract from you.

[fvstringpicker]

If the accident is your fault, you're liable for damages. Most accidents are not caused by being overloaded according to the sticker. It more due to negligence,- driving too fast for conditions, improper lane change, following too close, driver distraction, et cetera.

If they can prove you're overloaded, which is not an easy task, they'll try to prove the damages were exacerbated due to overload and go for punitive damages. If someone is towing a large rig with a dually, there's an good chance they are towing with the wrong class of license that adds juice to a negligence claim.

[CWSWine]

I would say proving be overweight depends. My last 5er had 2350 dry pin and my 1 ton had a 3722 payload and I was over my GVWR by 600 pounds. Now if I wasn't weighed at the accident site it would hard to prove I was overweight. I personnel know of several 3/4 ton trucks pull the exact same 5er I owned. I traded PMs with one guy that had 2500 RAM with 2040 payload and dry pin on the same fiver I had of 2350. He quoted JIMNLIN that he was under his GAWR if he loaded light and that was all he needs to be and GVWR didn't matter and was perfectly OK exceeding it. He on the road right now with the combo.

To prove he was overweight would be run VINs and expert witness from the RV or Truck industry and He would probably easy to convince a jury of NON-RVER that he was overweight.

I think 5 years this wasn't such a big deal but as people/lawyers get educated it becoming more risk each year. I got stopped for speeding 30 years with 3 kids in the back of station wagon playing on a blanket. The cop didn't say a word about them not being in car seats or buckled in. Fast forward today and probably be a big fine and maybe jail time....

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

If the accident is your fault, you're liable for damages. Most accidents are not caused by being overloaded according to the sticker. It more due to negligence,- driving too fast for conditions, improper lane change, following too close, driver distraction, et cetera.

If they can prove you're overloaded, which is not an easy task, they'll try to prove the damages were exacerbated due to overload and go for punitive damages. If someone is towing a large rig with a dually, there's an good chance they are towing with the wrong class of license that adds juice to a negligence claim.

[JIMNLIN]

Towing overweight can get you a overweight ticket or even impounded. On that ticket the officer is required to post the overweight code number. If the vehicle has exceeded that codes description then its legally overloaded.
If the combo is involved in a accident with injury and held at fault then a civil lawsuit can be pushed forward which can be easily won and usually settled before a court date is set.

There are no codes for carrying/towing weight above the vehicles gvwr/gcwr or a payload number.

[MTK46]

I think this thread has as far as conjecture on being sued for over loaded towing.

[donincanada]

Originally Posted by updog

Hello all,

My husband and I have been having a difficult time understanding and getting straight answers on several of our questions. We are looking to full-time in a fifth wheel, and would prefer to have a washer/dryer. We've spoken to several dealership salesmen that have ASSURED us that we can tow more than what we are calculating, but online forums say differently.

Specs:
2006 Ford F-250 6.0 Diesel
3.73 axle ratio
GCWR 23000
Max trailer 16,500
Payload 2781
GVWR 9600
GVW 6819
RGAWR 6100

We expect that ourselves and cargo will be 600 lbs. The hitch will add another 300 lbs. So, by our estimation, this leaves a pin weight of 1881 lbs. The dealer was showing us fifth wheels that were around 1800+ lbs hitch weight, and telling us we would be fine. Our understanding is that this heavy of a fifth wheel would actually put us OVER our weight limit.

Our questions are:
What advertised pin weight should we be looking at that we can realistically pull? Is there a fifth wheel with a washer/dryer that falls into this weight limit? Are there specific brands that are better for more of a full-time situation than others?

I have a Grand Design 337RLS that has a spot for a washer/dryer up in the front closet. I think the RV specs are a bit lower than yours. Pulling with a 2017 F250 Diesel.

[DB_Travelers]

Originally Posted by cavie

Do some research on the washer and dryer. Most reports I read are people are very disappointed in them. Too small and dryer takes way too long. Remember, the dryer is working on 120 volts. Not 220 like at home. You may like having the closet space vs the W/D. Many campgrounds are notorious for having low voltage.

We have the stacked washer/dryer in our FW and like it fine. True, the dryer isn't as fast as at home, but typically there isn't as much to wash either. Wife loves the convenience! She starts a load and then goes outside to sit and read her book.

Oh, and we pull our 15,500# FW with a diesel dually. Traveling is enjoyable, not a white knuckle event.

[okdeason]

I have too many customers (wreckers) that have had mechanical/maintenance problems with them. I think the newer ones are fine. I had a 1999 Dodge 3/4 ton LONG bed, (diesel 6) that was AMAZING. Bought it from my uncle (retired truck driver) he said he got 18mpg (I did too) even driving it 65-70 on the interstate...what a dream truck, it out lasted the 32’ 5th wheel and went for ever
(Cummins diesel). I have heard the newer fords and chevy’s are a lot better than those 2005-2008 (maybe 9 or 10). Whenever Ford changed their diesel engines is what you want. (Keep in mind, I am a ford guy, have owned may and own 2 small lincolns now).

Originally Posted by updog

Hello all,

My husband and I have been having a difficult time understanding and getting straight answers on several of our questions. We are looking to full-time in a fifth wheel, and would prefer to have a washer/dryer. We've spoken to several dealership salesmen that have ASSURED us that we can tow more than what we are calculating, but online forums say differently.

Specs:
2006 Ford F-250 6.0 Diesel
3.73 axle ratio
GCWR 23000
Max trailer 16,500
Payload 2781
GVWR 9600
GVW 6819
RGAWR 6100

We expect that ourselves and cargo will be 600 lbs. The hitch will add another 300 lbs. So, by our estimation, this leaves a pin weight of 1881 lbs. The dealer was showing us fifth wheels that were around 1800+ lbs hitch weight, and telling us we would be fine. Our understanding is that this heavy of a fifth wheel would actually put us OVER our weight limit.

Our questions are:
What advertised pin weight should we be looking at that we can realistically pull? Is there a fifth wheel with a washer/dryer that falls into this weight limit? Are there specific brands that are better for more of a full-time situation than others?

[sugarhillctd]

Well the weight police scared off updog.

And I thought that most of the WP were over in the truck camper section.

[GeoffDW]

Originally Posted by updog

Hello all,

My husband and I have been having a difficult time understanding and getting straight answers on several of our questions.

Our questions are:
What advertised pin weight should we be looking at that we can realistically pull? Is there a fifth wheel with a washer/dryer that falls into this weight limit? Are there specific brands that are better for more of a full-time situation than others?

Updog:

Well, probably by now you have figured out that you aren't going to get a straight to the point answer on this forum either. There are two camps, those that pay attention to stickers and those that don't. Every thread I have read will always break down into arguments over those, or this or that, and by page 2 its done and they will forget about your original post in an effort to make their point. The word "realistically" you used is interpreted very differently by the two camps.

My two cents; you are just starting full-timing. You will probably never downsize your trailer, but will probably upgrade after a few years of experience. So, pick or find a truck that will take that into consideration. I used the door panel stickers to help make my decision, not just legal, but I didn't want to be stressed over being at the edge of limits. You will need to reverse engineer the final result, but start with the drivers door sticker that is on your TV, no one elses, and not the manufacturers. You wound up with a maximum pin weight (approx 1881) but probably not according to the sticker. That is a really low number for a full-timer trailer you need. My experience after three RV's over a decade, legal or not, its not fun to get pushed around when a semi passes you or pushed down a hill. Use the sticker and keep figuring out how close you are with the different brands -- but I am not sure you will find much of a selection. If you are really close, legal or not, in my personal experience over the years, it isn't as much fun (I'll probably get lots of replies stating they are fine and pull wonderfully, etc., regardless of weight). It's a personal decision. The closer your math puts you to the upper limitations of your truck you can expect it won't perform as well under normal or emergency conditions. You then make a decision, increase your TV capability or look for a lower trailer weight that might work. I've had a 2500 and now have an F-350. That was the best decision. No white knuckle rides, plenty of power and more importantly, plenty of braking and stopping power. I too don't think you will find much selection in that weight range. Especially considering the pin weight you will get from the manufacturer is dry except for full water and propane - nothing in the belly, which is a joke.

We have a Whirlpool washer/dryer stacked set. We just got back from an almost month long ten state tour, mostly with 2 grand-daughters. It was a lifesaver. It might take a little longer to dry but it does a very good job. Definitely worth it and definitely NOT disappointed. It does add to your pin weight if you have it in front, and that may not be in the calcs unless its a factory add.


The best of luck -- ferreting out the wheat from the chaff.

[StageCoachDr]

I'm not sure you can find a 5er with a pin weight under 1800# that offers a washer/dryer option. The W/D option takes a lot of room and is usually right over the pin box. In addition the unit should have a larger than normal grey water tank.