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Old 10-06-2015, 10:00 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by NFlcamper View Post
Because you have the ability to tow overloaded, still doesn't mean another CAN! Giving advice to people asking, we need to advise them on the side of them not having the ability to handle emergency situations like yourself. Having an actually capable tow vehicle helps with peoples lack of experience. Better to not give false sense of ability whereas they can get into trouble in a situation you may not have a problem with.
Just musing here but it makes you wonder.

If a person has an accident can they sue someone whose advice they followed to exceed the specifications and guidelines? Although many use aliases the company may give up their details with a court order or just as a general policy.
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Old 10-07-2015, 08:01 AM   #30
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Just tossing this out...

I was in a tail wagging the dog situation once with a flatbed trailer improperly loaded with lumber. When the tires start howling from the wild swaying, it is very hard to get your brain to step on the gas, and manually engage the trailer brakes at the same time. I stayed right side up and came out of it, but others have not. I don't want to experience that again...
This was more than 30 years ago. I got lucky, no vehicles coming the other direction and I was all over the road until things got under control. That was a very real lesson on tongue weight, and speed. If I had stayed under 20 mph, that swaying would never have gotten started. Sometimes you can get by with "breaking the rules", but the "junkyard dog" is just waiting to chew your leg off. One of the benefits of being older, is you can now believe some of the advice you are given, and know that some of it comes from hard experience. If only I had time to expound on all the hard knock lessons I've been given....
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:18 AM   #31
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One last observation I will make is that going from a pop up to a TT is that a lot of the gear that you carried in the truck with a pop up will go in the travel trailer. So you loaded weight of the truck may be less once you get everything situated. The humans and animals will be the same, though, ha ha. I can say that I see a lot of trucks like yours pulling trailers about the size of the one you mention with no problems at all. But the weights of different trailers vary greatly, even in the same brand and models. With some careful shopping you should find a TT that will suit your needs and be ok for your truck to pull.
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Old 10-10-2015, 12:08 PM   #32
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For anyone playing along at home I was able to get the truck loaded and to the scale today. Loaded for camping we are at 6630 which leaves me 570 for tongue weight (7200 GVWR), less a WDH so not too much room until max. Looks like we'll have to look at upping truck if we want to move up to TT. Not too many TT for the size we are looking at in that range.

Kind of frustrating as I think other wise the F150 could handle the larger trailer but I'm not willing to overload and take the risk.

When I read this I went "oh crap!". Ok, crap wasn't the word that escaped my mouth... With typical WDH your looking at ~470 of payload left. That will not support many full height TT's other than hybrids or very small TTs. You'd be looking at GVWRs on trailers under 4500 lbs. GVWR, not dry weights. Advertised dry weight would have to be around 3000 lb.

I'd definitely wait on a new TT until you have a more capable tow vehicle. If y stick with a half ton, go for max payload. It's the first number to be exceeded when towing a TT, generally, long before max tow weight.
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:31 PM   #33
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Be careful with that F150. The published ratings are diminished a bit by the time it is tow ready. I recommend you use the RVtowCheck.com app to learn your realistic towing capacity.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:31 PM   #34
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From the above post, sounds like you have not even seen the unit in question and the salesman is telling you all the numbers? Documentation from the show rep is in print, or by word? Suggest you not get too involved with this unit until you see one in person and look at the mfg tag for GVWR.
Joe
So another rookie mistake and lesson learned. We did see the unit at Hershey RV show and only glanced at the mfg tag and fully didn't understand all the nuances of towing like I do now after more research. So at the time I was just looking at GCWR, which I know now is useless. So reached out to salesman we spoke to at the show and he provided me what appeared to be a spreadsheet of models from they had on display at the show along with weights, nothing official from Mfg. I've seen varying weights/dimensions online and from speaking from the dealer so I'm still not 100% sure of the actual TT's GVWR. Contacted the dealer and Mfg and neither are able to provide me with numbers so I figured I would just go to the deal and check the tag myself, but no units on the lot. It's been a week or so I think I'm going to contact Mfg again and see if they can help.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:43 PM   #35
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When I read this I went "oh crap!". Ok, crap wasn't the word that escaped my mouth... With typical WDH your looking at ~470 of payload left. That will not support many full height TT's other than hybrids or very small TTs. You'd be looking at GVWRs on trailers under 4500 lbs. GVWR, not dry weights. Advertised dry weight would have to be around 3000 lb.

I'd definitely wait on a new TT until you have a more capable tow vehicle. If y stick with a half ton, go for max payload. It's the first number to be exceeded when towing a TT, generally, long before max tow weight.
How does your TV tow? From the your sig it looks like you are pulling a pretty hefty TT with a 1/2 truck, all be it a newer TV. The TT we are looking at is pretty much the similar size/style but if we change our packing style slightly (leaving the firewood at home) we can increase the payload capacity leaving us with 1050 payload less 75 WDH for 975 capacity. I still think this is pushing it with little room to spare but looking for some real life experience towing these types of trailers. Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:49 PM   #36
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Be careful with that F150. The published ratings are diminished a bit by the time it is tow ready. I recommend you use the RVtowCheck.com app to learn your realistic towing capacity.
Looked at this and with wood loaded on the TV for camping our max TT with 12% TW is just under 4800, but if I leave the wood at home it bumps it up to 8000! How can 300-400 payload may that big of a difference in max tow capability?
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:55 PM   #37
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Simple really. For every pound of truck weight, you lose the same amount of towing capacity when using the GCWR formula. When the GVWR formula comes into play, you must avoid exceeding the truck's GVWR and this formula takes into the account of the truck, passenger, cargo and tongue weight at the various pin weight percentages.

If you can place the wood in the trailer without overloading it and stay within the required 10-15% tongue weight, you may be able to tow more.

Your truck with only 7200 GVWR doesn't give you a lot of room to work with.

Read the FAQ on RV Tow Check for more info.



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Looked at this and with wood loaded on the TV for camping our max TT with 12% TW is just under 4800, but if I leave the wood at home it bumps it up to 8000! How can 300-400 payload may that big of a difference in max tow capability?
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:57 PM   #38
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Every 100 lbs of payload used up for wood, is 100 lbs of tongue weight you can't have, equating to 1000-1200lbs of trailer weight.

300 lbs of wood... 3000- 3600lbs less
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:13 PM   #39
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For anyone playing along at home I was able to get the truck loaded and to the scale today. Loaded for camping we are at 6630
Back up a bit.... what does the truck weigh with only driver & passengers? The truck must be able to handle the tongue weight if that's the only load; even a theoretical max of 1000#-1200# should be okay with 2-3 passengers. It sounds like you have some cargo that could safely be moved to the trailer. Almost any trailer has >1000# cargo capacity, and it sounds like the trailer you're looking at has much more.

Anyway, you should be able to tow a trailer that size and some gear within the Tundra ratings, and have at least some headroom. You'd have to load it carefully, and I wouldn't begrudge you for getting a bigger truck. But you should be able to stay within spec with a Tundra, based on the numbers I've seen.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:31 AM   #40
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Just musing here but it makes you wonder.

If a person has an accident can they sue someone whose advice they followed to exceed the specifications and guidelines? Although many use aliases the company may give up their details with a court order or just as a general policy.
I would think that any advice given to anyone on a forum could be considered just 'conversation', unless, the adviser identifies them self as a Subject Matter Expert. Although the advice in the 'conversation' could be from years of experience, the one asking for advice should consider the advisers knowledge and take it for what it's worth. I don't think the adviser in the 'conversation' would be accountable. Just my opinion.

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I have towed a cargo trailer loaded to the gills and never had a problem. My TV was a 2008 Lincoln Navigator with 8500 lbs capacity towing and I had a 26 ft cargo trailer. It towed fantastic when full of futrniture that was weighed at 10500 lbs! I had a Reese anti sway hitch that did just that. I had no issues with the Lincoln at all. It has air springs standard so rear end does not sag. Same engine as the TV you have.
Your Navigator has a towing capacity of 9000 lbs., not 8500 lbs.
Not heeding capacity warnings could be a very bad(sad) day for someone, if not yourself. You may 'get away' with being overloaded 100's of times until the ONE time you don't, and then that's when YOU will be responsible for the outcome.

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Personally I'm not comfortable "pushing the envelope" especially with my girls on board. It's not worth it.
I applaud you for getting well informed. The safety of the family is always first, but also, the safety of everyone driving around you is important, too.

Good luck in you search and safe travels to you, kmb,

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Old 10-15-2015, 11:11 AM   #41
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Dazed and Confused...towing capacity

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Why don't you take the trailer for a test run and see how the truck tows the trailer. I have towed a cargo trailer loaded to the gills and never had a problem. My TV was a 2008 Lincoln Navigator with 8500 lbs capacity towing and I had a 26 ft cargo trailer. It towed fantastic when full of futrniture that was weighed at 10500 lbs! I had a Reese anti sway hitch that did just that. I had no issues with the Lincoln at all. It has air springs standard so rear end does not sag. Same engine as the TV you have.

I'd advise the OP to ignore this post. Towing a 10,500 pound trailer with a 2008 Navigator or any Navigator is ridiculous. Most people buy an RV to travel, travel usually means experiencing lots of different conditions. Winds, weather, 18 wheelers, hills, unexpected heavy braking, etc. Those factors change everything and can change the towing experience from good to really bad in a matter of seconds. I think way more of my family than to tow a large TT overloaded with an inadequate tow vehicle.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:53 PM   #42
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How does your TV tow? From the your sig it looks like you are pulling a pretty hefty TT with a 1/2 truck, all be it a newer TV. The TT we are looking at is pretty much the similar size/style but if we change our packing style slightly (leaving the firewood at home) we can increase the payload capacity leaving us with 1050 payload less 75 WDH for 975 capacity. I still think this is pushing it with little room to spare but looking for some real life experience towing these types of trailers. Thanks in advance.
My TV tows ok here in central Texas. I do 98% of the driving while towing. I have not taken it in the mountains yet. I suspect I will want a diesel 2500 as soon as I do. I know it's back there. RPMs go up on hills. Max torque spec on my truck is 3950 RPM. I do see 3500 on long hills. The 8 speed transmission helps a lot to keep the truck from revving high in one gear. I find that the cruise control does a better job of gear management than I do, so when able, I let it. I'm not setting any speed records, and I stay @65MPH on the highway. With the switch to the blue ox I no longer have white knuckles with passing trucks or crosswinds, but I still know it's happening. My towing experience has gradually progressed from an 8' popup to a 19' hybrid to the 29' TT (33' overall).

I absolutely would not go longer or heavier without a 3/4 ton truck.

However, I had to make some adjustments after we brought it home to be under on all my numbers.

1)I had to move the ice chest and our bikes to inside the trailer, near the trailer axles to reduce impact on tongue weight and payload. No lazy loading leaving all that stuff in the truck. When we pick up the TT from storage, we spend 5 minutes loading stuff in.

2)We load all groceries and clothes into the TT before we take off. The fridge is right at the axles. I put our clothing bags on the couch, across from the fridge, again, to reduce overall impact on payload.

3)I got some lighter camp chairs and went through all of our items we transferred from our previous TT and took out everything we don't actually use.

4)I balanced weight of items put in front compartment (more of an impact to tongue weight) and the rear compartment so I still had enough tongue weight for stability, but didn't just shove everything in that convenient front compartment.

Keep in mind that there are only 2 adults and a 35 pound dog in the truck, even though we have a trailer that sleeps 9. Our friends meet us on location in their own vehicles. I do not have enough payload to put additional adults inside the truck. I do not have children in the truck. (Or at all, for that matter, my son is 18 and meets us there if he joins us)

Here is a copy of the work I emailed my husband when I worked out the weight details:

Current setup:

People: 410
Dog:35
Bikes: 75
EAZ Lift WDH: Shipping Weight: 101.41 pounds

Total payload used before camper hitched: 621

Payload 1490-621 = 869 payload available so tongue weight has to be under 869.

At 12% desired tongue weight, max trailer weight under current setup is 7241. This assumes yeti and food/clothes are inside the camper near axles. If we don't move the cooler and clothes to the TT, our available tongue weight will decrease further. GVWR of TT is 7558 so we will overload the truck before overloading the TT. We can't use the last 300 pounds of CC set up this way. I don't know that we NEED that last 300 pounds of CC, but, if we did, we'd max out the truck.

Proposed:

Move bikes to inside trailer near axles (dinette fork mount mod)
Install Blue ox hitch: Shipping Weight: 96.03 pounds (doing this anyway)

People: 410
Dog: 35
Blue ox: 96

Total payload used before camper hitched: 541

1490-541 = 949 payload available -- have roughly 100 lbs more tongue weight available this way. This can translate into ~1000 lbs more TT weight when loaded properly.

At 12% desired tongue weight, max trailer weight under proposed setup is 7908. Everything but us and the dog in the TT, heavy items near axles. GVWR on the TT is 7558, so we would overload the TT before we overloaded the truck when loaded properly.

Our dry weight is 6104, so that will allow 1454lbs CC. More than we need.

We need to make a point of loading food and clothes etc into the camper while towing, and the bikes and ice chest should never be in the truck.

Math is hard for girls. Feel free to check it.
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