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Old 08-16-2012, 08:28 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
As a retired transportation engineer for the WA DOT I have to ask what is a "bar ditch"?
Never heard that term in my 30 years there.
So what do the folks in WA call the area between the shoulder of the highway and the edge of the road right of way? The gutter? I always thought of the gutter as a term for drainage of city streets, but not for country roads.

All sorts of country roads from the simpliest dirt road up through caliche, gravel, chert roads, and paved highways have a barrow or bar ditch alongside the road.

Yeah, the official word is barrow, as in wheelbarrow. "Barrow" is a derivation of the Old English "bearwe" which was a device used for carrying loads. The barrow ditch "carries the load" of drainage water away from the road surface. I don't think it has anything to do with borrowing dirt from the side of the road to build up the roadbed, although when you dig a drainage ditch that dirt has to go somewhere.

But barrow used in barrow ditch is pronounced "bar" in the good part of the world.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:11 PM   #58
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HI all; I'm not a newbi by any stretch but lately I'm feeling that way. The reason for tthis is my thinker has been totally wrong about towing weights. I've always thought that if the towing weight of my truck was 10,450# then thats what I can pull. It makes sense to me. They say that thats the wight then why can't I pull my rig up these mountain pass's. If you live in Phoenis and want to go to Prescott, Pinetop or Flagstaff we have 6 an 7% grades with lots of switchbacks. Now I haven't pulled this weight yet cause we're stationary right now an living in our tight rig. BUT, we our previous truck was rated for 8000# and our rig weigh's 5400#. We'd get halfway up Sunset Point and we'd stall out at Bumble Bee. Once the enigine cooled down we move on and quite possibly make it to the top.
So okay; I'll be looking for a bigger truck next year and a year later will move up to a bigger TT or 5er. I know its better to buy the rig first and then match the truck to the rig but that ain't always possible. Whats that old saying about; "Putting the cart before the horse". OKay I admit it I'm stumped. So please help this old fart out and set me straight in plain laymens English.
Just sign me Confused.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:26 PM   #59
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you would be surprised at how much the waffle maker weighs!!!
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by RustyJC View Post
Bar ditch is a Texas term for the drainage ditches that run alongside a roadway. Wikipedia defines it as:

A bar ditch, also known as a barrow pit, is a roadside pit or channel dug for drainage purposes.[1] The term is most often used in the Southwestern United States.

Rusty is correct. We refer to the drainage ditches beside the roads as bar ditches.

But heck, we're just dumb Texans....
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #61
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It would be helpfull if we knew what your TV & TT are/were. Also the GVWR of both and the GCVWR of the TV. Also if you load a 1K in the TV you need to reduce what you should tow by that much.

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Old 08-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by thehallocks View Post
So please help this old fart out and set me straight in plain laymens English.
Hi Tom -

It's reasonably simple, but not as simple as you'd like it to be.

There are two weight ratings for your tow vehicle that you need to understand.

GVWR is the limiter on most pickups and SUVs with single rear wheels (SRW). That's the max weight, including hitch weight, you can haul on the 4 truck tires without being overloaded. But ignore the payload rating of your tow vehicle (TV), because it's not even close to accurate.

The only way to determine your max hitch weight is to load the truck down with all the people and stuff that will be in it when on the road. Stuff includes pets, tools, jacks, cooler, and options you added, such as spray-in bedliner and trailer hitch. For a TT hitch, you want to include the shank and ball mount for the weight-distributing hitch. For a 5er hitch, you want the whole shebang installed in your truck, or at least loaded into the back of the truck. Then go to a truckstop with a CAT scale, fill up with fuel, and weigh the wet and loaded TV.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded TV from the GVWR of the TV, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

TTs have anywhere from about 12 to 15 percent hitch weight, so to be safe, divide the max hitch weight by 0.15 and the answer is the max GVWR of any TT you can tow without being overloaded.

Smaller and medium-size 5er RVs less than 12,000 pounds have anywhere from 16 to 20 percent hitch weight, also call "pin" weight or kingpin weight. So to be safe, divide the payload available for hitch weight by 0.20 and the answer is the max GVWR of any 5er you can tow without being overloaded.

GCWR is the gross combined weight of the truck and trailer. That indicates the max weight you can pull up a normal interstate grade at a reasonable speed without burning up something in the drivetrain. The tow rating is simpy the GCWR of the truck minus the dry empty "shipping" weight of the truck. It's overstated by at least 1,000 pounds for most vehicles, and ignores GVWR (hitch weight). So it's not useful for anything more than a wet dream of how heavy a trailer you can tow.

So compute you own realistic tow rating. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded TV from the GCWR, and that's one limit as to how much trailer you can tow without being overloaded. But don't use that limit unless it's less than the max trailer weight computed above, based on the GVWR of your TV.

Then realize that all this estimating might still get you in trouble if you don't frequently weigh the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale. Add the weights on the 4 truck tires, and compare the total to the GVWR of the TV. Compare the gross weight of the truck and trailer to the GCWR of the TV. Compare the weight on the trailer tires to the combined GAWR of the trailer.

A dually might not have any more GCWR than an SRW, but it will have a lot more GVWR, so it can safely handle a lot more hitch weight.

An SUV can rarely get even close to the tow rating, because folks tend to haul more weight of people inside the SUV. So same rule if you have an SUV = subtract the weight of the wet and loaded SUV from the GVWR to detrmine the max hitch weight you can add without being overloaded. Then convert that available hitch weight into the max weight of any TT you can tow without being overloaded by dividing it by 0.15.

Note that TT sellers will tell you to use 10% to estimate hitch weiight of a TT. Don't believe them. My new 2012 TT has a hitch weight over 15%.

Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
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