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Old 11-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by baraff View Post
What model year did they start mandating this? Seems to me that older diesel trucks and DP motorhomes may be more valuable and have a higher resale value?
X2 on that. Mine doesn't even have a computer. I am so blessed for choosing an older vehicle.

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Yes it is unless it is for "off road use."
So are a lot of other things that you, me, and everyone else do every day.
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Which is probably illegal here in the US. I know one outfit that was selling the delete kit was ordered to quit and levied a good size fine, more than they ever made selling the kits and may put them permanently out of business.
"Off road use" is going to be a thing of the past soon it has already started in many ways on off road Equipment already. just look at the tier I, Tier II,..... engines

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Was told by Chevy service manager (his words not mine, so can't confirm this) more DEF used at idle than when running down the road.
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Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie View Post
That could make sense. There's not enough heat at ideal to burn fully and clean. Also, the DPFs at idle won't be doing much either.
.......
X2 very true. engines pollute the most at idle but much worse than that is a cold start.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:25 PM   #44
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Jmjtx "If you can afford a 2013 Ford then you can afford DEF"! ??? I have heard "if you can afford, etc., etc" far to many times about my RV and it's many problems/expenses. IMO any statement, (about any subject), beginning with "If you can afford ***", and ending with "you can afford ***", is ridiculous and not at all helpful. A statement like that is not cute or clever, (nor is it necessarily true).... but it certainly is condescending and insulting! End of rant. Mel '96 Safari

I wasn't implying that I couldn't afford the additive. I was simply asking it's purpose and what would happen if you didn't add it- not because if a money issue- just asking a question.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:42 AM   #45
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This is why I keep driving my 2002 Ford F550 7.3 and will till the wheels fall off and I can't rebuild anymore, not falling for this EPA crap, global warming etc.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:02 AM   #46
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DEF

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Originally Posted by baraff View Post
What model year did they start mandating this? Seems to me that older diesel trucks and DP motorhomes may be more valuable and have a higher resale value?
2011 was the year if I am not mistaken. I had a Ford F350 duel rear wheel that required it. Not very expensive to maintain. Did not use much even towing the 36 foot 5th wheel. I will have to see with the 2014 Fleetwood. Havn't run through a tank yet.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:54 PM   #47
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My 2013 GMC has it no big deal it holds 5 gals. I found it in Walmart for $12 for a 2.5 gal box. My computer tells me when to add it like 900 miles to go. One more thing if you really want to laugh look it up and see what it is made of.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:27 AM   #48
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In my opinion, the problem with these systems is not the cost of the fluid refill, but the inevitable emissions problems and Check Engine Lights in a few years when these systems fail. And the associated repair costs.

90% of the cost of maintaining most cars I have/had is when you get a CEL which is usually a fault somewhere in the emissions sytem. Bad O2 sensors, vacuum leaks, bad catalytic converter, etc etc. And you can't sell it or pass emissions test till it's fixed.

In GA, there is no emissions test for Diesels (yet), but who needs a test when the EPA forces the engine to shut down in short order.
Big Brother is already in your vehicles and I don't shrug that off. It will get worse every year.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:49 AM   #49
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I wasn't implying that I couldn't afford the additive. I was simply asking it's purpose and what would happen if you didn't add it- not because if a money issue- just asking a question.
Most vehicles will go into limp mode if you run out of DEF. It is mostly water with anhydrous ammonia added to it. I have heard you can run straight water and fool the system. Read where over the road truckers have been doing this for years, just to save on the cost of buying this crap.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #50
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I have heard you can run straight water and fool the system. Read where over the road truckers have been doing this for years, just to save on the cost of buying this crap.
Found this:

LML Duramax DEF
If the DEF fluid quality is detected to be low, an "EXHAUST FLUID QUALITY POOR" notification will be displayed on the instrument panel. After 200 miles of driving with poor quality DEF, the truck will be speed limited to 55 mph. If the system continues to detect low quality DEF, speed will be limited to 4 mph upon the next refueling.
If the DEF system detects that it requires service, a "SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM" notification will be displayed on the instrument panel. Failure to have the system serviced within 200 miles will result in speed limited to 55 mph upon the next startup, and 4 mph on the next refuel.
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by KSCRUDE View Post
Most vehicles will go into limp mode if you run out of DEF. It is mostly water with anhydrous ammonia added to it. I have heard you can run straight water and fool the system. Read where over the road truckers have been doing this for years, just to save on the cost of buying this crap.
You could on some SCR systems initially, until Navistar brought its lawsuit in 2010 highlighting this to the EPA. Current SCR systems monitor DEF quality to prevent the above.

DEF is an aqueous solution of urea and deionized water.

Rusty
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