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ChiefJohn · 08-31-2007, 12:28 PM

This is way above my old country boy IQ but something that all of us with diesel engines may wish to read. The gist of the research is that 100% biofuel is the best and cheapest additive for the new USLD diesel fuel. For more information go the Escapees topic here.

ChiefJohn · 08-31-2007, 12:28 PM

This is way above my old country boy IQ but something that all of us with diesel engines may wish to read. The gist of the research is that 100% biofuel is the best and cheapest additive for the new USLD diesel fuel. For more information go the Escapees topic here.

Don (W5IT) · 08-31-2007, 01:22 PM

John I have always used Stanodine myself...... Made by the same MFG of the injection pumps in most diesels.

Ecker · 08-31-2007, 02:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChiefJohn:
This is way above my old country boy IQ but something that all of us with diesel engines may wish to read. The gist of the research is that 100% biofuel is the best and cheapest additive for the new USLD diesel fuel. For more information go the Escapees topic here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ULSD does not need lubricity additives. The specification issued in 06 all ready calls for these to be added by the producer. You are wasting your money and in some cases you might be causing a problem.

ChiefJohn · 08-31-2007, 02:50 PM

Ecker,
That's the reason they included a caveat in the "HISTORY" (introduction) paragraph that states:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All ULSD fuel purchased at retail fuel stations SHOULD be adequately treated with additives to replace this lost lubricity. The potential result of using inadequately treated fuel, as indicated above, can be catastrophic. There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems. For this reason it may be prudent to use an after market diesel fuel additive to ENSURE adequate lubrication of the fuel delivery system. Additionally, many additives can offer added benefits such as cetane improver, and water separators or emulsifiers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ecker · 08-31-2007, 04:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChiefJohn:
Ecker,
That's the reason they included a caveat in the "HISTORY" (introduction) paragraph that states:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All ULSD fuel purchased at retail fuel stations SHOULD be adequately treated with additives to replace this lost lubricity. The potential result of using inadequately treated fuel, as indicated above, can be catastrophic. There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems. For this reason it may be prudent to use an after market diesel fuel additive to ENSURE adequate lubrication of the fuel delivery system. Additionally, many additives can offer added benefits such as cetane improver, and water separators or emulsifiers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cummins has tested the new engines for literally millions of miles across US using ULSD and they do not recommend any additives. This is their statement in presentations done since March of 2006.
________________________________________________
ô€‚ƒ No change in lubricity performance
– New ASTM lubricity requirement
– No fuel additives required

09-01-2007, 04:39 AM

I am with Ecker. There is more to this than what was done or conducted in the test.

There is so much misinformation on fuel re sulphur content, lubricity,cetane, etc. For example there is more than 1 lubricity test standard being used, not just as in the quoted test.

Ed-Deb · 09-01-2007, 07:13 AM

The issue is not as much a question of the "new" engines needing additional lubricity (07 meeting new smog requirements) as these engines were specifically designed to burn ULSD.

The problem is with the older engines. Twice I have convinced myself that I did not need to use any additives to my fuel in my 99 Dodge. I lost the injector pump at 94K after not using an additive for three months.

When the new injector pump was installed I talked to the mechanic and he endorsed using no additives. I now have another new injector pump installed (cost:$2,7xx after only 19k miles).

Theoretically, the new fuel will lubricate enough to mitigate the need for any additives. However, based on my experience, I will be adding something to increase lubricity to preclude another $3k from going to the dealer for another new injector pump.

Ecker · 09-01-2007, 09:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ed-Deb:
The issue is not as much a question of the "new" engines needing additional lubricity (07 meeting new smog requirements) as these engines were specifically designed to burn ULSD.

The problem is with the older engines. Twice I have convinced myself that I did not need to use any additives to my fuel in my 99 Dodge. I lost the injector pump at 94K after not using an additive for three months.

When the new injector pump was installed I talked to the mechanic and he endorsed using no additives. I now have another new injector pump installed (cost:$2,7xx after only 19k miles).

Theoretically, the new fuel will lubricate enough to mitigate the need for any additives. However, based on my experience, I will be adding something to increase lubricity to preclude another $3k from going to the dealer for another new injector pump. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, if I was in your shoes I'd be looking for another source of problem.

Ray,IN · 09-03-2007, 04:12 AM

For everyone's reading pleasure and edification: Exxon diesel fuel FAQ, Facts on Fuel, Clean diesel fuel Alliance, are excellent sources of information. Chief John is right about bio-diesel, it is what refineries use to replace lost lubricants in the process of removing sulphur. The U.S.A. has one of the lowest diesel lubricity standards of any country in the world. All diesel engine mfgrs. say their engines do not require additives, however, they did not buy my engine, and GM says a new Duramax crate engine, installed is around $10,000.

xc-mark · 09-12-2007, 03:57 PM

I think the comment ^ is spot on that the OEM's claim they dont need fuel lube but , they say this because additives change the emission output of the motor and the only way the EPA certifies motors is with #2 ulsd in the tank because its a constant and no unknowns.... I think every diesel will last longer if it has some lube added to ULSD, top end , valves , fuel pumps , injectors ect should last if it has more lube the the current dry fuels we are burning . I have owned a diesel truck since 1993 , and have had some fuel related issues in the past ......

Ecker · 09-12-2007, 04:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Chief John is right about bio-diesel, it is what refineries use to replace lost lubricants in the process of removing sulphur. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your info is incorrect. Here is recent report.
------------------------------------------------
On one side, through the appropriate ASTM committee channels, the U.S. biodiesel industry has been working with those in the petroleum and other relevant industries to adjust the ASTM diesel fuel specification, D 975, to allow up to B5. Technically, this would mean that there would be no distinction to draw between pure hydrocarbon diesel fuel and B5 diesel fuel in the United States. "The B5 in D 975 has passed subcommittee ballot, but it will likely not pass through main committee at ASTM until the end of this year at the earliest," said Stu Porter, biodiesel technical analyst for Ontario-based BBI Biofuels Canada. As U.S. diesel fuel specs evolve to incorporate a small but important percentage of biodiesel, it closes the gap between what distinguishes U.S. and European standards; European diesel is already approved to contain up to B5.
------------------------------------------------

Ray,IN · 09-16-2007, 08:30 AM

Ecker you may want to rethink that rebuke. Read the EPA list of approved diesel fuel additives.

Ecker · 09-16-2007, 02:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ray,IN:
Ecker you may want to rethink that rebuke. Read the EPA list of approved diesel fuel additives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm afriad I don't understand your comment. You stated refineries are adding bio-diesel as an additive. I simply showed that they don't yet have approval of ASTM D975 to do so. Of course, individuals can add it if they wish dependent upon engine manufacturers approval which for Cummins is 20% on newer engines.