Diesel vs Gas 3/4 ton Truck Opinions

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Barefoot68

Something else to consider. If you look to diesel a 1 ton will allow for a diesel storage tank in the truck bed. An extra 85 gal would be nice on long hauls. You could hook it right into your current fill port. With a switch to open valve to fill main tank from storage tank. You can’t do that with gas.

You can, it needs to be done properly. I have a 40 US gallon toolbox/tank combo in the bed of my gasser. It gives me 74 US gallons total and some 800-1100 total kms of range with the 5er. I have never set an EVAP code either, everything is functional and emissions legal. Gravity fed transfer solenoid.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I did not read all the replies. Diesel vs gas is an age old debate that won't go away anytime soon. YOU will need to weight the pros and cons for your usage.

Diesel WILL have much more low end grunt. In theory, a well-maintained diesel will outlast a gas engine simply due to the fewer overall revs it will see in its lifetime as a diesel will generally rev 50-60% of a comparable gas-engined, truck.

Diesel WILL cost more to maintain and especially to repair. A simple injector replacement on a V-8 diesel can easliy run 5000$ or more. An oil service will cost 120 to 150$ just in parts and fuel filter replacement is recommended quite often, some are expensive. Fuel quality issues are common (in areas) and create major damage.

Diesels do not do well if they sit for extended periods of time OR do not put in "real" work regularly. Variable vane turbos stick and rust up. Diesel fuel grows algae when sitting for months. ANY water getting through a filter will quickly damage injectors and pumps. DEF goes bad over time(even sitting) and all newer diesels have that.

Diesel fuel can run 10 to 30% more than regular gas in my area depending on season. That totally negates any fuel efficiency savings and you also need to tally up that DEF purchase. Diesel maintenance is not always available everywhere, usually pretty basic for a gasser.

That said, towing a large 5er or anything 15 000 lbs or more will likely require a diesel. We tow a 13k loaded 5er with our GM 6.0 gasser. It runs high RPM up hills and I've held it at 4500 rpm for 5 minutes at a time or more but hey, it's a gasser and loves revving. It will be slower going uphill for sure. It will hold the 5er at steady speed downhill with engine braking up to about 6, maybe 7% grade. After that I need to tap the brakes every few seconds.

I went gasser as it is used 2x a year at most for long trips, many weekend trips during our short summers and it barely moves 500 km all winter, sometimes sitting 5-6 weeks at a time. A diesel would have all sorts of issues. Purchase price was also much lower for our gasser, probably a good 5-7k less for our rig that was 2 years old at the time. Yes,diesel resale is generally higher but don't forget, you paid that cash up front.

For the price of major service such as injector or pump work on a modern diesel I can install a brand new crate engine long block in mine.

Just some of the things to think about.

Spoken like a true gasser, that has never owned or towed with a diesel.
I have news for you gas goes bad faster than diesel when it sits. Sitting for six to eight weeks will create no more issues for a diesel than a gas engine.

I will agree that an Oil Change cost more, but once off warranty change once a year or 15,000 miles, half as often as a gasser.
our 2016 diesel is quiet and strong, I thought the old 2001 was strong pulling our 12,700# 5er, I really need to look to see if it back there with the 2016.


I would not want to have to do a panic stop at the bottom of a long grade having to "Tap" the brakes ever few seconds. I have descended very long grades watching cars and trucks in front of me tapping or riding brakes, while I was listening to the sweet low rumble of the exhaust brake while not needing to touch the brakes.


The $5,000 for an injector change "Might" be needed at 250,000 miles or so.


You might be able to buy the crate engine for $5,000, but labor to remove and install it will likely add another $2,000 to $3,000 to the cost.


Five whole minutes at 4,500 rpm, diesels don't need to turn high rpms to create torque, it comes naturally to them.


You keep your gas engine, and push the max at 13,000# 5er, while I am towing with our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Cummins with a max tow of 25,000#.

[ScoobyDoo]

Originally Posted by kdauto

You can, it needs to be done properly. I have a 40 US gallon toolbox/tank combo in the bed of my gasser. It gives me 74 US gallons total and some 800-1100 total kms of range with the 5er. I have never set an EVAP code either, everything is functional and emissions legal. Gravity fed transfer solenoid.

Can you tell me what transfer tank you have that is approved for gasoline? My old pickup, as soon as the gas cap comes off, the motor dies, but I don't have any codes to clear.

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Spoken like a true gasser, that has never owned or towed with a diesel.

I started working with gassers, and changed to diesels decades ago. If my work could pay for a truck working 12-15,000 miles a year, I would have to look awful hard at gas.

I have news for you gas goes bad faster than diesel when it sits. Sitting for six to eight weeks will create no more issues for a diesel than a gas engine.

Most times gas goes bad in the 6-8 weeks time frame, drain to half tank or less, add fresh gas to double what is in the tank. Bad mileage, low power, but drive it until that is gone, fill with fresh, its better. Next tank all normal. But once algae forms in the tank, gets sucked into the lines, everything must be drained and flushed before work again. (Back when I had both, and parked for winter I would fill the diesel, so no room for condensation. Every time needed gas in the pickup I would pump some out of the gasser until MT. But back then did not have to deal with E-whatever or Bio-diesel)

I will agree that an Oil Change cost more, but once off warranty change once a year or 15,000 miles, half as often as a gasser.

OK, your driving 15,000 miles a year. It is not unusual for a gas engine to run 200,000 miles. What is unusual it for a RVer to use the same pickup for 10-12 years

I would not want to have to do a panic stop at the bottom of a long grade having to "Tap" the brakes ever few seconds. I have descended very long grades watching cars and trucks in front of me tapping or riding brakes, while I was listening to the sweet low rumble of the exhaust brake while not needing to touch the brakes.

I will never forget the first time downhill with a diesel, compared to gas. Without the jake/exhaust brake a lot of people would die the first trip with a diesel. And many talk about all that can go wrong with E brakes on trailers, but will never comment about there exhaust brake controlled by switches and wires. A gas engine, OTOH, defaults to throttle closed, compression brake on.

The $5,000 for an injector change "Might" be needed at 250,000 miles or so.

Or will be needed the first drop of water that gets past the filter.

Five whole minutes at 4,500 rpm, diesels don't need to turn high rpms to create torque, it comes naturally to them.

And what percentage of your 15,000 miles a year are running near max power?

You keep your gas engine, and push the max at 13,000# 5er, while I am towing with our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Cummins with a max tow of 25,000#.

Back when I was working gas trucks I was moving way more weight than any RVer is likely to deal with; Truck alone, normally I would gross over 60,000. (67200 legal max) Add the trailer, I would run about 110,000. Now with that kind of weight on a 427 GMC you might need to drive a stake in the ground to tell I was going up the hill, but when I got to the top there was no traffic in front of me, and it would take a running automobile to get by me on the downhill.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Rhagfo

Spoken like a true gasser, that has never owned or towed with a diesel.
I have news for you gas goes bad faster than diesel when it sits. Sitting for six to eight weeks will create no more issues for a diesel than a gas engine.

I will agree that an Oil Change cost more, but once off warranty change once a year or 15,000 miles, half as often as a gasser.
our 2016 diesel is quiet and strong, I thought the old 2001 was strong pulling our 12,700# 5er, I really need to look to see if it back there with the 2016.


I would not want to have to do a panic stop at the bottom of a long grade having to "Tap" the brakes ever few seconds. I have descended very long grades watching cars and trucks in front of me tapping or riding brakes, while I was listening to the sweet low rumble of the exhaust brake while not needing to touch the brakes.


The $5,000 for an injector change "Might" be needed at 250,000 miles or so.


You might be able to buy the crate engine for $5,000, but labor to remove and install it will likely add another $2,000 to $3,000 to the cost.


Five whole minutes at 4,500 rpm, diesels don't need to turn high rpms to create torque, it comes naturally to them.


You keep your gas engine, and push the max at 13,000# 5er, while I am towing with our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Cummins with a max tow of 25,000#.

For what it's worth I DO know what I,m talking about. I have been a professional mechanic for almost 34 years now and have owned my professional repair shop for 23 years now. I have done those injector jobs AND engine replacements. I have dealt with all the issues I mentioned. While I have not owned a diesel truck myself I have towed with them before,sure. As I stated, diesels DO pull nice. Are they necessary for all and in every situation, NO! Matter of fact is most RV shops now use gassers for yard trucks to move the RVs around as they have fewer issues. All these issues are a result of what I posted.

When I'm fully retired in probably 10 years we plan on doing some really long and difficult trips. One may involve lots of mountainsand a 40 000 km+ route. Am I preferring a diesel for that, 100% yes. I am slowly looking at them and seeing how future emissions devices hinder them.

There really is no need to bash me or other gas-powered vehicles, that is just stupid and childish. My gasser suits MY current needs and is a better fit, I am 100% certain of it.

FWIW I have NEVER had issues with 4 to 6 month old gasoline. If I was parking it that long in 20 plus Celsius weather I'd use gas stabilizer.

[kdauto]

[QUOTE=ScoobyDoo;4681634]Can you tell me what transfer tank you have that is approved for gasoline? My old pickup, as soon as the gas cap comes off, the motor dies, but I don't have any codes to clear.

It's an RDS tank. I believe mine is the 72775 model here. RDS Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
I found a simple NC solenoid and fabricated the tubing for the filler neck metal pipe. I start transferring when my main (original) tank drops between 1/3 to 1/4 tank. If hauling normally on flat ground main tanks gets filled up. If I'm forcing against the wind,uphille or whatever tank level will raise slightly but range is extended immensely. I think I plumbed it with 3/8" fuel hose and it's simple gravity feed. Vent hose also routes to the filler neck.

[laj]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I did not read all the replies. Diesel vs gas is an age old debate that won't go away anytime soon. YOU will need to weight the pros and cons for your usage.



Diesel WILL have much more low end grunt. In theory, a well-maintained diesel will outlast a gas engine simply due to the fewer overall revs it will see in its lifetime as a diesel will generally rev 50-60% of a comparable gas-engined, truck.



Diesel WILL cost more to maintain and especially to repair. A simple injector replacement on a V-8 diesel can easliy run 5000$ or more. An oil service will cost 120 to 150$ just in parts and fuel filter replacement is recommended quite often, some are expensive. Fuel quality issues are common (in areas) and create major damage.



Diesels do not do well if they sit for extended periods of time OR do not put in "real" work regularly. Variable vane turbos stick and rust up. Diesel fuel grows algae when sitting for months. ANY water getting through a filter will quickly damage injectors and pumps. DEF goes bad over time(even sitting) and all newer diesels have that.



Diesel fuel can run 10 to 30% more than regular gas in my area depending on season. That totally negates any fuel efficiency savings and you also need to tally up that DEF purchase. Diesel maintenance is not always available everywhere, usually pretty basic for a gasser.



That said, towing a large 5er or anything 15 000 lbs or more will likely require a diesel. We tow a 13k loaded 5er with our GM 6.0 gasser. It runs high RPM up hills and I've held it at 4500 rpm for 5 minutes at a time or more but hey, it's a gasser and loves revving. It will be slower going uphill for sure. It will hold the 5er at steady speed downhill with engine braking up to about 6, maybe 7% grade. After that I need to tap the brakes every few seconds.



I went gasser as it is used 2x a year at most for long trips, many weekend trips during our short summers and it barely moves 500 km all winter, sometimes sitting 5-6 weeks at a time. A diesel would have all sorts of issues. Purchase price was also much lower for our gasser, probably a good 5-7k less for our rig that was 2 years old at the time. Yes,diesel resale is generally higher but don't forget, you paid that cash up front.



For the price of major service such as injector or pump work on a modern diesel I can install a brand new crate engine long block in mine.



Just some of the things to think about.

wow, i have never encountered, or even heard of these kind of prices and i’ve been running diesels for more then 45yrs. must be something very unique, or special to you or your country. i can get a set of injectors done for around 1k.

[WYO George]

Originally Posted by laj

wow, i have never encountered, or even heard of these kind of prices and i’ve been running diesels for more then 45yrs. must be something very unique, or special to you or your country. i can get a set of injectors done for around 1k.

You must drive really old trucks or you're talking about a single injector. The injectors themselves are anywhere from $300-800 EACH for any of the newer common rail diesels so even if the labor was free you'd still be in it for at least a couple grand if you had to replace the whole set.

[Rhagfo]

Originally Posted by laj

wow, i have never encountered, or even heard of these kind of prices and i’ve been running diesels for more then 45yrs. must be something very unique, or special to you or your country. i can get a set of injectors done for around 1k.

Originally Posted by WYO George

You must drive really old trucks or you're talking about a single injector. The injectors themselves are anywhere from $300-800 EACH for any of the newer common rail diesels so even if the labor was free you'd still be in it for at least a couple grand if you had to replace the whole set.

Well I agree with WYO George, the injectors on my 2001 Cummins were about $75 ea. fully mechanical. I can get OEM injectors for the 2016 for about $350 ea.
I have no argument that a diesel cost more to repair if they break. Most people over blow the cost of maintenance. I do turn my own wrenches, just for peace of mind, While under warranty I will be required to change oil every six months, as I will not be driving 30,000 miles a year, likely around 10,000 to 15,000 as the diesel will be our daily driver.
Oil change 3 gals oil about $30 to $45 if not on sale. Filter Fleetguard Stratopore $14.
I also send a sample to BlackStone Labs @ $28 a sample, did this for our gassers also.
Fuel filters are an expense at about $50 ea. and two are required, every 15,000 miles.


If newer diesels were as fragile as many make them out to be, no one would buy them. I think we have turned the emissions corner and it will only get better and less of an issue.
I still blame Ford for all the negative feelings for using diesels, the 6.0 and 6.4 didn't do the perception of diesels any good, then the issues with the early 6.7's and the high pressure pump just kept it going. It looks like those issues are now behind Ford and they have no more issues than GM and Ram.
The last issue is many don't drive diesels correctly, turbo's need a little cool down, and a couple minutes of warm up and easy for the first couple miles. They will work for short trips as long as you take a nice weekend drive.

[Jshopes81]

The dealer that services the work dodge charged 2200$ to remove all 6 injectors, testing and cleaning all 6, 1 replacement injector, and reinstalling them. Apparently you can only get the 3500 and bigger trucks serviced at the commercial garages.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by laj

wow, i have never encountered, or even heard of these kind of prices and i’ve been running diesels for more then 45yrs. must be something very unique, or special to you or your country. i can get a set of injectors done for around 1k.

As mentioned by others, not on anything modern. The labor involved for the job is not just an hour either. There are lots of gaskets and odds and ends, it isn't a driveway job.

With pressures peaking around 28 000-29 000 psi and the precision of parts involved, a set of injectors easily runs 3000$ to 5000$ just in parts depending on YMM.

Cleaning and reinstalling as one mentioned for 2-3K, that's possible. If cleaning "fixed" anything on a diesel injector would surprise the hell out of me. Most times something is worn,cracked or leaking. I have rebuilt injectors myself but the result can be iffy.

[fvstringpicker]

If you paid more than $2,000 for a set of (stock) injectors for a Dodge Cummins you should have shopped around. About $1600-1800 is more like it. (with the core/old injectors)
A set of performance injectors should run you less and probably much less than $3k.
8 injectors for a Duramx will set you back 2,500-2800.

[Jshopes81]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

If you paid more than $2,000 for a set of (stock) injectors for a Dodge Cummins you should have shopped around. About $1600-1800 is more like it. (with the core/old injectors)
A set of performance injectors should run you less and probably much less than $3k.
8 injectors for a Duramx will set you back 2,500-2800.

Why would i shop around for something thats under warranty?

[vanion2]

Because they are talking about post warranty work. Not everyone buys new.

[ScoobyDoo]

[QUOTE=kdauto;4682271]

Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo

Can you tell me what transfer tank you have that is approved for gasoline? My old pickup, as soon as the gas cap comes off, the motor dies, but I don't have any codes to clear.

It's an RDS tank. I believe mine is the 72775 model here. RDS Auxiliary Fuel Tanks
I found a simple NC solenoid and fabricated the tubing for the filler neck metal pipe. I start transferring when my main (original) tank drops between 1/3 to 1/4 tank. If hauling normally on flat ground main tanks gets filled up. If I'm forcing against the wind,uphille or whatever tank level will raise slightly but range is extended immensely. I think I plumbed it with 3/8" fuel hose and it's simple gravity feed. Vent hose also routes to the filler neck.

Looking at that site, and every other one I looked at, the connection to transfer fuel to factory tank is safety rated for diesel only. I thought about just using a transfer pump to fill the factory tank, but gas stations are everywhere...