Diesel vs. Gas Truck

[rlwithrow]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

So cause airplanes discharge pollutants then cars and factories should be able too? Not sure where that logic is going. You're saying that since some is not controlled then none should be controlled? A good example is to look at my previous link about the air quality in China. Is that what you really want the U.S to look like? No one likes all the emissions regulations but it's sure nice to look out over the horizon and see a nice view of a snow capped mountain.

If there weren't 317,000,000 people living here then you could get away with less emission controls.

What I'm saying is that the average 10 hour flight in a 747 can burn up to 36,000 gallons of fuel and it is injected into the clouds. How many flights a year is there a year? I'm all for fuel economy and that leads to cleaner air but I think the automotive industry has done more than it's share towards the environment.

[CJBROWN]

Yeah, you can't take the emmissions crap off them anymore as they are all inspected now. Plus they're setup and designed to have it so they won't work right without.

By far the best developments have been the common rail diesel and direct injection. The new ones are so quiet you wouldn't know they are a diesel. And the DEF thing is pretty painless to keep topped up and results in super clean exhaust. So it's all good, but you really don't need a diesel unless you need the bigger towing capacity they offer. If you're at max capacity on a gasser then you really ought to go diesel.

The other issue a lot of people overlook is the ride quality. A big truck makes a horrible car. They ride hard, are hard to park and maneuver in town, they're too tall, just a big PITA to use as a car. And they're not cheap. IMO it's so much easier to tow a small car with a motorhome. Then when you park it you have a small car to drive instead of a big truck.

But the truck and trailer thing usually costs less, and having a motorhome doesn't fit everybody's needs. When we had our boat we would tow it with the truck or the motorhome depending on where we were going. For short haul pulling it with the motorhome would have been a joke. But for going to the river lakes in the next state it worked really well. We even ramp-launched the boat with the motorhome. It would usually gather a bunch of spectators. LOL.

2004 Silverado Crew LS, Duramax. 2006 Grady White 208 Adventure




Here it's behind the motorhome in my sig.

[TDI-Minnie]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Ya lets get rid of all that horrible emissions stuff so we can have air like they do in China.

You should read up on what the EGR does to your Cummins and your oil... and you fuel economy.

Not saying I want to harm the environment, but mine averages 5mpg better in any condition now. That's 30% better fuel economy than before.

It's all a farce anyway because the EGR reduces NOx but causes more particulate matter to be discharged, which in turn requires a Diesel Particulate Filter, which in turn gets raw fuel dumped into it to regenerate the filter and burn off all the soot when no one is measuring emissions.

All this jacks up the price of your truck, decreases your payload due to it's weight and reduces your fuel economy, besides killing your engine all along (especially on a diesel) through engine wear, oil dilution and oil pollution as well as higher Exhaust Gas Temps.

Sorry to derail the thread.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie

As with anything, you need to take care of the automatic tranny. Avoid hard upshifts under full load (lift to shift) and let it lock up.
:(

Don't do that with any modern electronic transmission. Line pressures are controlled electronically and when the PCM/TCM is preparing to shift under load, the line pressures are high. When a shift occurs the PCM will detune the engine slightly and shift will be synchronized with engine load and line pressures. By lifting the pedal the pressures typically do not release fast enough and it will actually promote a harsh shift. This is because you just released all engine power while the TCM was preparing for the shift with expected line pressures. Plus you run into issue with the adaptives not "learning" properly and also inducing abnormal shift fell. Let the PCM/TCM do their job by maintaining your foot steady. Modern transmissions do not have accumulator springs anymore to soften shift feel by allowing slight slipping into gear. They are heavily monitored and calibrated where there is almost no engagement slip at all. It was not uncommon for me to remove and disassemble a transmission in a Superduty with over 300K and the part numbers were still printed on the clutch packs. And these were inner city transit buss's that are nothing but heavy stop and go driving.

BTW, a firm shift is expected when towing under heavy loads. This is commanded to make sure there is no loss of speed during the shift and no clutch slipping. A good example of a firm shift under load is the GM trucks with the Allison transmission. I was shocked how firm the upshifts were under hard acceleration. It did not bother me but I can see some people crying about it. In fact one of the chevy dealers I work with is always telling me of customers that do not understand firm shifts and when to expect them.

[TDI-Minnie]

So full throttle, hard shifts are better for the drivetraiin longevity??
Sorry, I'm not on board with that. And I may be wrong but I'll take a smooter shift any day, especially when towing my trailer.

[jesilvas]

Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie

So full throttle, hard shifts are better for the drivetraiin longevity??
Sorry, I'm not on board with that. And I may be wrong but I'll take a smooter shift any day, especially when towing my trailer.

He never actually said that, but that they are designed for that.

And smooth shifts usually mean more slipping, more wear, and more heat. I like a firm shift, but not slamming of course.

[cptgregger]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

Your friend must have something unique to his truck causing a problem. One of my best customers is a sales manager at local ram dealer and great friend of mine. His service dept claims the Aisin tranny has been bulletproof ever since it was introduced in 2008. Everyone claims the dodge trannys are weak and unreliable, I have drove ram truck since late 90's and never have had one problem with a tranny. I am a contractor and routinely pull 10-15 grand be it a backhoe or load of sand/gravel in dump trailer. I am not saying you can't have a problem with one of them, I'm just saying you can't say they "suck" because one person has had a problem. If that's the case, all Ford trucks must be really bad after 2003-2010 ford diesel truck problems.
I am not trying to stir the pot, just making a sensible statement.

Chad

I only used the word "suck" because of the various comments I've read on the diesel forums... and because he, a very astute mechanic himself, stated that he has read about other owners having problems as well. This guy is a service manager at an exotic car dealership. Before getting into European cars he worked on Dodges. He knows his way around the industry. If anyone could efficiently resolve the issue, it's him. He is PISSED.

He was without his truck for quite a while, mostly because the dealer had issues finding a replacement transmission. Then got it back with 800 miles more on it.

I'm sure there are plenty of very satisfied new Ram owners out there. I have owned 3 rams for the past 10+ years and two Dodge minivans. By and large I've had very little issues to deal with on the motor/ trans end. But the rest of the vehicle leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm reading online that Dodge is trying to turn things around.I hope so. But if past performance is any indication, I doubt we'll see much commitment to the product when it's outside of the wty window. Remember the "53 Block" issue that Dodge avoided for so many years? It wasn't until a Class Action lawsuit forced them to own up... or the dreaded dash cracks? Their reputation is poor... this coming from a experienced Dodge owner, and fan.

But I don't believe in being a brand-slave. I don't wear T-shirts advertising someone elses product, and I don't sow loyalty to any given manufacturer just because "my Dad drove one" or something like that. To me, they need to earn my loyalty. Common sense.

I did just a brief cursory search on one of the forums for trans problems. Here's just one thread of many I came across. Sure some owners have no problems at all. But there are plenty who are pulling their hair out after paying $65K for a truck.

500 miles and in the shop.... - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

[cptgregger]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Why would your friend go from a 2500-3500 to a 1500? The 8sp is only in the 1500. Something's fishy here.

I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure the 8spd is only in the 1500? I highly doubt he would go to a 1500... although he does have a 90s-model 1500 gasser with nearly 400,000 miles on it as his ranch truck.

He did mention something about the "2014 mid-year swap out" in that discussion. Maybe it has something to do with that?

I'll ask when I see him next.

I know almost NOTHING about the 4th-gen Dodges as I'm not on that side of the forums. I only know what my two neighbors say. One traded in his 4th gen for a new F350. The other is the guy I mentioned who is on his 3rd transmission.

I will say this. From what I have read on the boards, and from what my neighbors tell me, Dodge is doing everything it can to make the customer happy. Which is a lot more than I can say about Ford during that whole 6.0 debacle.

[cptgregger]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

I am not saying you can't have a problem with one of them, I'm just saying you can't say they "suck" because one person has had a problem. If that's the case, all Ford trucks must be really bad after 2003-2010 ford diesel truck problems.
I am not trying to stir the pot, just making a sensible statement.

Chad

I will agree on the Ford comparison. But I think it's too early to tell if the newer Fords are reliable or not... as in 2nd gen Dodge CTD or 7.3 PS reliable. I always find it amusing how new model year owners will brag about the durability of their diesel-powered trucks when the vehicle is still fairly low mileage. Some will tell me, "well, I don't keep a vehicle out of warranty". Ok, sounds sensible. But if the resale value is to be held high, the reputation for durability has to be there. The whole point for holding that resale value is the supposed "million-mile" durability of diesels that many like to claim. For me, I average 10 years per vehicle. So it makes sense to pay up for a diesel. But if you're keeping the truck for 4 years or less, you'll never get your money's worth out of it. To each his own though.

[iawoody2]

Problem solved. I use my diesel for trips, and bought a F150 2wd for everyday use.

[Goneracin]

Originally Posted by cptgregger

I only used the word "suck" because of the various comments I've read on the diesel forums... and because he, a very astute mechanic himself, stated that he has read about other owners having problems as well. This guy is a service manager at an exotic car dealership. Before getting into European cars he worked on Dodges. He knows his way around the industry. If anyone could efficiently resolve the issue, it's him. He is PISSED.

He was without his truck for quite a while, mostly because the dealer had issues finding a replacement transmission. Then got it back with 800 miles more on it.

I'm sure there are plenty of very satisfied new Ram owners out there. I have owned 3 rams for the past 10+ years and two Dodge minivans. By and large I've had very little issues to deal with on the motor/ trans end. But the rest of the vehicle leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm reading online that Dodge is trying to turn things around.I hope so. But if past performance is any indication, I doubt we'll see much commitment to the product when it's outside of the wty window. Remember the "53 Block" issue that Dodge avoided for so many years? It wasn't until a Class Action lawsuit forced them to own up... or the dreaded dash cracks? Their reputation is poor... this coming from a experienced Dodge owner, and fan.

But I don't believe in being a brand-slave. I don't wear T-shirts advertising someone elses product, and I don't sow loyalty to any given manufacturer just because "my Dad drove one" or something like that. To me, they need to earn my loyalty. Common sense.

I did just a brief cursory search on one of the forums for trans problems. Here's just one thread of many I came across. Sure some owners have no problems at all. But there are plenty who are pulling their hair out after paying $65K for a truck.

500 miles and in the shop.... - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

Thats a scary thread to read. Im sticking with my old school 7.3

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by cptgregger

I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure the 8spd is only in the 1500? I highly doubt he would go to a 1500... although he does have a 90s-model 1500 gasser with nearly 400,000 miles on it as his ranch truck.

He did mention something about the "2014 mid-year swap out" in that discussion. Maybe it has something to do with that?

I'll ask when I see him next.

I know almost NOTHING about the 4th-gen Dodges as I'm not on that side of the forums. I only know what my two neighbors say. One traded in his 4th gen for a new F350. The other is the guy I mentioned who is on his 3rd transmission.

I will say this. From what I have read on the boards, and from what my neighbors tell me, Dodge is doing everything it can to make the customer happy. Which is a lot more than I can say about Ford during that whole 6.0 debacle.

6sp 2500-35002014 Ram 2500 - Capability & Performance
8sp 1500 2014 Ram 1500 - Capability & Performance

Zero issues with my 12 2500 CTD @18,000 miles. Every vehicle can have issues. You take your chances.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie

So full throttle, hard shifts are better for the drivetraiin longevity??
Sorry, I'm not on board with that. And I may be wrong but I'll take a smooter shift any day, especially when towing my trailer.

Well I never said that and it does help to have a very intimate knowledge of how modern automatic transmissions shifts. It would also help if you reread where I talked about how calibration controls the shifts. Just asked yourself how does that slip and slide engagement occur in a transmission. Especially when towing you want that shift to be firm and positive so there is no loss of momentum and the least amount of time while between clutch packs as one (or 2 depending on shift) releases and one applies.

[TDI-Minnie]

Originally Posted by jamesrxx951

Well I never said that and it does help to have a very intimate knowledge of how modern automatic transmissions shifts. It would also help if you reread where I talked about how calibration controls the shifts. Just asked yourself how does that slip and slide engagement occur in a transmission. Especially when towing you want that shift to be firm and positive so there is no loss of momentum and the least amount of time while between clutch packs as one (or 2 depending on shift) releases and one applies.

You wait till the it locks up before you roll back onto the throttle. I'm not too worried about a little loss in acceleration.
Just like driving a manual... You don't slip anything once it's rolling if done right. I use the manual shift on the auto all the time and always have the tranny temp display on. Totally smooth and never any slip.