Diesel vs. Gas Truck

[jesilvas]

Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie

You wait till the it locks up before you roll back onto the throttle. I'm not too worried about a little loss in acceleration.
Just like driving a manual... You don't slip anything once it's rolling if done right. I use the manual shift on the auto all the time and always have the tranny temp display on. Totally smooth and never any slip.

I think you two are confusing slip. An automatic trans ALWAYS has slip. When the TC is unlocked, then it's always slipping. That's how you can stay in Drive and with the foot on the brake, standing still.
The clutches always slip when shifting. A manual trans is the same.

TDI, I think you are thinking of slip when the trans is in direct drive (TC locked) and it still slips and RPMs change when they should not.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by TDI-Minnie

You wait till the it locks up before you roll back onto the throttle. I'm not too worried about a little loss in acceleration.
Just like driving a manual... You don't slip anything once it's rolling if done right. I use the manual shift on the auto all the time and always have the tranny temp display on. Totally smooth and never any slip.

Originally Posted by jesilvas

I think you two are confusing slip. An automatic trans ALWAYS has slip. When the TC is unlocked, then it's always slipping. That's how you can stay in Drive and with the foot on the brake, standing still.
The clutches always slip when shifting. A manual trans is the same.

TDI, I think you are thinking of slip when the trans is in direct drive (TC locked) and it still slips and RPMs change when they should not.

Yea I do not think he fully understands it. Unless you are or were heavily involved in modern automatics, even up to date or even involved in shift calibration you really don't understand what is going on. What he is doing with his foot, the PCM already does (to a very much better degree) of "backing off the throttle" in between each shift. During each shift the PCM/TCM is calculating engine load, speed, driver input, etc to determine the best shift point and shift quality. Shift timing is just that, the time between the shift pretty much determines the feel that the driver detects. To little shift time, then it can be firm. To much time during the shift, then there is more slip. This is why there is an adaptive road test for automatic transmissions. This is the time the technician will drive the vehicle in a specific manner to allow the PCM/TCM to adjust pressures and timing for a correct shift engagement time (aka feel).

What he does may in fact be causing more harm than good. When a shift is made the torque converter may be commanded to stay locked up or it may be commanded a slight amount of slip to "mask" the "feel". When the driver released or backs off the throttle, the torque converter may be commanded off. So now after the shift the torque converter is reapplied and then the same for the next shift. Just a never ending cycle that does not need to take place.

[TDI-Minnie]

All I can tell you is that I've got it to where the Torque Converter is locked, and I don't lift all the way... just enough to keep it from reving and go to the next gear to use that torque. And this is why this conversation is relevant to the OP. Lower RPM and lots of Torque in a diesel vs revs and horespower in a gasser.

I will admit that the two diesels I tow with require a very different driving style. And the wife's Beetle TDI has a dual-clutch auto, which is a whole nother animal still. Actually, it may be the best of any tranny I've ever driven in anything (not for towing), and I usually prefer a manual. The Porsche PDK in the Panamera Turbo is another absolute masterpiece to drive. Same idea as the VW DSG.

The Touareg has paddle shifters for the automatic, so it's easy to keep the ~650lbft in the sweet spot. The Ram I'm currently re-learning because I can run several different programs in the tuner that change shift points depending on if it's in "towing" (not tow-haul on the dash), fuel economy or performance.

As a side note, any time you start increasing the engine output, you need to look after your tranny and be smart about how you apply that extra power. I know that goes without say, but lots of people tear up their tranny on these new trucks because it doesn't take much to get them over 1,000lbft+.

[jesilvas]

With me 2000 4R100 trans, I have a switch to lock up the TC to keep using as much torque as I can. Just have to know when to unlock.

[cptgregger]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

6sp 2500-35002014 Ram 2500 - Capability & Performance
8sp 1500 2014 Ram 1500 - Capability & Performance

Zero issues with my 12 2500 CTD @18,000 miles. Every vehicle can have issues. You take your chances.

Interesting stuff. I looked at the link.

Is that 68RFE the Aisin?

Glad you're having zero issues. I'm still looking at CTD Dodges. I looked at new Hemi-powered ones last week but they were nearly the same price... (mod edited term)? I'd rather own a diesel in that case. Duh.

For now I'll stick with my 2nd Gen CTD and V10 Magnum. My other neighbor took all the emissions stuff off his 3rd-gen CTD and said it runs perfect now and gets 25 mpg. But before he did that he had loads of problems with it. I think it was a '08, first year the 6.7 came out (or was that '07). He still has that truck but his main ride is a '12 6.7L Ford, which he swears by. He says he'll never buy another Dodge but keep his '08 around as a backup vehicle. He did mention that he keeps all those emission parts stored and ready to be put back on for whenever Texas decides to start smog-checking diesels (supposedly that's coming). So MPG are only good on his Ram cause he mod'd it.

I might start looking at Fords again.

[TDI-Minnie]

Originally Posted by cptgregger

My other neighbor took all the emissions stuff off his 3rd-gen CTD and said it runs perfect now and gets 25 mpg.

I can attest to this, first hand.
The difference is amazing, but 2012 RAM is the last model year you can pull this off as it was the last 2500/3500 without the exhaust fluid and it's a relatively simple conversion.

[jenandjon]

I just got my first diesel truck last year. I could have gotten a much newer gas half ton for the same price. I love my diesel and will NEVER go back to gas. The power and torque are far superior to gas. Even not towing. I live on a hilly road. My old gas truck downshifted all the time. The diesel maybe down shifts once.
Wife will be due for a new car in 3 years. We are already doing research. I think her new car will be a diesel also.

[Highway 4x4]

Just got a new 14 Cummins after 11 problem free years with an 03 Cummins. This 14 is light years ahead of the 03 and things most trucks don't. Just look at the Ram build suite. BTW, got a loaded Laramie 4x4 crew OTD at 55K. No issues, just plenty of power. Keyless go, heated and cooled leather seats, Sat radio with awesome sound, just a great truck. Yes electronic, less mechanical moving parts. Coil springs all around so it rides nice. Drive whatever you want, I do.

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

Just got a new 14 Cummins after 11 problem free years with an 03 Cummins. This 14 is light years ahead of the 03 and things most trucks don't. Just look at the Ram build suite. BTW, got a loaded Laramie 4x4 crew OTD at 55K. No issues, just plenty of power. Keyless go, heated and cooled leather seats, Sat radio with awesome sound, just a great truck. Yes electronic, less mechanical moving parts. Coil springs all around so it rides nice. Drive whatever you want, I do.

Congrats highway 4x4 on the new ride. Those are seriously awesome trucks. I have a 12 mega cab 2500 4x4 and have been waiting to hear from someone how the new coil springs rode. My 12 has leaf springs and although not a bad ride it could stand to be better. My brother has a 12 Chevy 2500 and his may have a ever so slightly better ride than mine I have been thinking the coil suspension would probably make the ram a little better. Enjoy your truck.

Chad

[jenandjon]

Coil springs all around on the new Dodge? Everyone Ive ever been in rode like a lumber wagon. About time thy do something about that. That is one reason why I got a chevy. That and could not get a mega cab long box.

[Highway 4x4]

It is easier to make a coil progressive, that is soft unloaded and ramps up as it is compressed. For leaf springs, the soft ride spring is also what positions the rear diff and is subject to spring wrap. Coils have rear trailing arms, much stronger. Front is a radius arm on two and four wheel drive. Ram is really stepping up to the plate with their new trucks, Dodge is gone. The quad cab is gone, replaced with the full size crew cab that has a 8 ft bed available. I looked at the big three and made a choice that is best for me.

[TDI-Minnie]

Originally Posted by onechaddude

Congrats highway 4x4 on the new ride. Those are seriously awesome trucks. I have a 12 mega cab 2500 4x4 and have been waiting to hear from someone how the new coil springs rode. My 12 has leaf springs and although not a bad ride it could stand to be better. My brother has a 12 Chevy 2500 and his may have a ever so slightly better ride than mine I have been thinking the coil suspension would probably make the ram a little better. Enjoy your truck.

Chad

The '12 Cummins may be the last of the diesels with really long legs because (as of today) it's the only one that can easily still be fully deleted. So no issues with emissions equipment failing and wrecking your engine.
It does still have leafsprings in the rear, but if you air the tires down to around 45psi empty, it rides fine.

[Highway 4x4]

My 14 has a 7 year 100K mile warranty. I'll worry about the federally mandated emission devices in 2021. Not that it matters, but it is a crime to remove those devices even if there are no smog checks where you live. I had an 03 5.9 that was simple and trouble free but I chose not to live in 2003 forever.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

My 14 has a 7 year 100K mile warranty. I'll worry about the federally mandated emission devices in 2021. Not that it matters, but it is a crime to remove those devices even if there are no smog checks where you live. I had an 03 5.9 that was simple and trouble free but I chose not to live in 2003 forever.

So it's okay to drive a non emissions 03 but not okay to delete a 12? By your reasoning the 03 should be dismantled and sold to a scrap yard.