Community Forums

jesilvas · 05-11-2014, 08:07 PM

Awesome stats. I bet that single regen was definitely helped by constant high EGTs. What were they, btw?

Scottybdivin · 05-12-2014, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveStarDEF

Just finished annual migration from AZ to WA. 2013 6.7 F350 4X4 Crew with a 4500 lb. Arctic Fox in the bed and a 3500 lb. Utility trailer. Drove 65 most of the way with significant head and cross winds. Cool temps once we got to higher elevations in AZ. Rain, snow for some of the trip in AZ, UT, NV and OR.

Boost gauge often at 19-21 psi for long periods uphill. Saw Oil Temp of 244F for a few minutes on the long climb out of AZ East Valley with outside temp of 94F.

1800 miles on a mostly 2 lane road route with side trips to Pine Top AZ and Zion National Park.

From the trip computer (likely +/- 2.5% accuracy)

175 gallons diesel (matches pump numbers well) so 10.3 MPG

ONE (that is ONE) active regeneration in 1800 miles. No joke. No active regenerations in the last 1200 miles.

Consumed 3.25 gallons DEF (filled to neck at departure, then refilled today so 1.85% DEF/diesel).

Oil change 3 days before we left, no change in oil level during trip.

Finally tried the TOW/HAUL button feature. Great assist while descending long hills and less shifting while ascending. Great engine braking on 14% down grade into Frenchglen OR.

Awesome performance compared with my previous V10 F350.

Erich

Nice statistics. You didn't mention if you have a DRW with 3.73s or a SRW with the 3.55s. I'm a little surprised at your tranny oil temps, although the synthetics can take it, no problem. I have pulled my 18K rig from PHX to Payson and never got above 220.

Doctor DEF · 05-12-2014, 09:54 AM

DRW with 3.73 and rest of 14K GVWR/Slide In Camper package (shocks and swaybar I believe).

244 F Oil Temp on virtual gauge was engine oil, not trans. Trans never got over 210 on the virtual gauge.

I had a Trans Control Unit fault (according to the dealer it was "Excess Network Traffic") while I was installing an OBII wireless monitoring unit 3 weeks ago, so I did not install it for this trip, so no EGT data. This fault caused the trans to momentarily jump out of gear at a stop while in gear.

I believe the reason for success of passive regen is the low amount of time spent running with the exhaust cold.

I've seen data from Cummins on their success with nearly eliminating active regenerations by incorporating improvements to catalysts, and running higher combustion temps/pressures (and slightly higher DEF mass fraction percentages). They had 42% of the 2012 Heavy truck market engines (source: Wards Automotive Group) for a number of reasons, but their success in meeting the new EPA10 and EPA13 protocols at an affordable cost while keeping great performance probably has something to do with it.

Erich

elkhornsun · 05-18-2014, 05:03 PM

A diesel engine is an added expense when the truck is purchased and is more expensive to fuel and more expensive to maintain and much more expensive to repair. If you are towing 15,000 lbs. then it is the only option. If you are towing 9,000 lbs. then there is no reason to buy a truck with the diesel engine, only get the 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Around 12,000 to 13,000 lbs. it becomes a tradeoff between cost and performance. Going up or down steep mountain grades the diesel is a very nice to have option and can make the experience a lot more enjoyable and possibly safer with the greater engine braking potential with the exhaust brake on the diesel (if one is provided). Diesel engine reliability has been a problem for pickup trucks with the constant re-engineering that has taken place for the GM, Ford, and Cummins diesels over the past 10 years. With successive models some problems are corrected and some new ones are introduced. This is very different from the very little tweaks done to gas engines over the past 30 years where very little has changed under the hood. Anyway you slice it the total cost of ownership for the diesel pickup is going to be double that of the gas pickup and you have to decide if it is worth the additional expense or if gas is even an option with the load you intend to tow.

Billua · 05-18-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhornsun

A diesel engine is an added expense when the truck is purchased and is more expensive to fuel and more expensive to maintain and much more expensive to repair. If you are towing 15,000 lbs. then it is the only option. If you are towing 9,000 lbs. then there is no reason to buy a truck with the diesel engine, only get the 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Around 12,000 to 13,000 lbs. it becomes a tradeoff between cost and performance. Going up or down steep mountain grades the diesel is a very nice to have option and can make the experience a lot more enjoyable and possibly safer with the greater engine braking potential with the exhaust brake on the diesel (if one is provided). Diesel engine reliability has been a problem for pickup trucks with the constant re-engineering that has taken place for the GM, Ford, and Cummins diesels over the past 10 years. With successive models some problems are corrected and some new ones are introduced. This is very different from the very little tweaks done to gas engines over the past 30 years where very little has changed under the hood. Anyway you slice it the total cost of ownership for the diesel pickup is going to be double that of the gas pickup and you have to decide if it is worth the additional expense or if gas is even an option with the load you intend to tow.

Double the cost to own over a gas rig? Uh Huh...

jenandjon · 05-20-2014, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhornsun

A diesel engine is an added expense when the truck is purchased and is more expensive to fuel and more expensive to maintain and much more expensive to repair. If you are towing 15,000 lbs. then it is the only option. If you are towing 9,000 lbs. then there is no reason to buy a truck with the diesel engine, only get the 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Around 12,000 to 13,000 lbs. it becomes a tradeoff between cost and performance. Going up or down steep mountain grades the diesel is a very nice to have option and can make the experience a lot more enjoyable and possibly safer with the greater engine braking potential with the exhaust brake on the diesel (if one is provided). Diesel engine reliability has been a problem for pickup trucks with the constant re-engineering that has taken place for the GM, Ford, and Cummins diesels over the past 10 years. With successive models some problems are corrected and some new ones are introduced. This is very different from the very little tweaks done to gas engines over the past 30 years where very little has changed under the hood. Anyway you slice it the total cost of ownership for the diesel pickup is going to be double that of the gas pickup and you have to decide if it is worth the additional expense or if gas is even an option with the load you intend to tow.

If we were still in 1983 I would agree with you. I have had the displeasure of working on dodge,Chevy and Oldsmobile diesel engines from that era.
We have 4 diesel pickups on the farm (2 duramax and 2 cummins) we also have 2 chevy gas pickups. If you want a real truck get a diesel.

mike.t · 05-20-2014, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhornsun

A diesel engine is an added expense when the truck is purchased and is more expensive to fuel and more expensive to maintain and much more expensive to repair. If you are towing 15,000 lbs. then it is the only option. If you are towing 9,000 lbs. then there is no reason to buy a truck with the diesel engine, only get the 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Around 12,000 to 13,000 lbs. it becomes a tradeoff between cost and performance. Going up or down steep mountain grades the diesel is a very nice to have option and can make the experience a lot more enjoyable and possibly safer with the greater engine braking potential with the exhaust brake on the diesel (if one is provided). Diesel engine reliability has been a problem for pickup trucks with the constant re-engineering that has taken place for the GM, Ford, and Cummins diesels over the past 10 years. With successive models some problems are corrected and some new ones are introduced. This is very different from the very little tweaks done to gas engines over the past 30 years where very little has changed under the hood. Anyway you slice it the total cost of ownership for the diesel pickup is going to be double that of the gas pickup and you have to decide if it is worth the additional expense or if gas is even an option with the load you intend to tow.

I don't know as much as you do but my truck holds 10 qt's of oil. Has a oil filter that cost $10.00. Where is the 2 x cost? You own a dodge how come? Are the new Diesel car's (and there are lots) 2x more to maintain?

Scottybdivin · 05-21-2014, 05:57 AM

My wife and I both drive 2013 Ford diesels. It costs us $60 for oil and filter change about every 7K mi. because that's about the interval that the "Change Oil" light comes on. I drive mine for work and also pull our Toyhauler. Now that she is retired, she drives hers to the grocery store or the shopping mall. This is her 4th diesel vehicle. She will not even consider anything else.

TDI-Minnie · 05-22-2014, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike.t

Are the new Diesel car's (and there are lots) 2x more to maintain?

No way! We also have VW 4 cylinder TDI 2.0 liter. It averages 36-45mpg and takes 4qts of oil and a filter every 7500 miles, which is free for the first 30k miles anyway. The only additional cost on a diesel is the occasional fuel filter.

And that one is actually a hoot to drive around town too, not just highway cruising. It's got a 6sp with paddle shifters on the steering wheel and nearly 250ft-lb at 2k rpm. It's relatively light weight and handles like a sports car compared to any comparable hybrid. Love that car.

And again, the resale value trumps any up-front cost of purchase over a gasser.

BCooke · 05-22-2014, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhornsun

A diesel engine is an added expense when the truck is purchased and is more expensive to fuel and more expensive to maintain and much more expensive to repair. If you are towing 15,000 lbs. then it is the only option. If you are towing 9,000 lbs. then there is no reason to buy a truck with the diesel engine, only get the 4.10 or 4.30 gears. Around 12,000 to 13,000 lbs. it becomes a tradeoff between cost and performance.

Then get the 250 with 3.73 which is the same rear as the gas. Or try the 3.55 or 3.31. With the diesel the 3.31 rated the same weight as the 3.73 gas. The 400 HP with 800 ft lb of torque will not shift as much.

lynnmor · 05-22-2014, 08:06 AM

I bought a diesel so that I can bypass the Corn Lobby. Way more energy in a gallon of diesel vs. a gallon of watered down gasoline.

Steve Ownby · 05-22-2014, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynnmor

I bought a diesel so that I can bypass the Corn Lobby. Way more energy in a gallon of diesel vs. a gallon of watered down gasoline.

I certainly don't disagree but the bio diesel folks will still get you. I can tell you with certainty, AquaHot units don't like bio diesel in cold weather. I had to use triple the dose of anti-gell to keep the AH running.

Steve Ownby
Full time since '07

elkhornsun · 05-28-2014, 05:34 PM

I use twice as much oil in my diesel and more expensive oil and I change it at half the mileage to avoid engine damage from soot buildup that is common to the diesel engine. I paid an extra $9,000 for the diesel and Allison upgrade when I bought the truck. I have two batteries to replace instead of one battery. Fuel filter changes are 3x as often as with my gas engine powered trucks. Air cleaners are double the cost. The cost to replace a NOx sensor in my truck at $750 was more than double the cost to replace an oxygen sensor in any of my gas powered vehicles. I pay more for diesel than I do for premium gas at the pumps and I also pay for DEF fluid. Two friends have had their injectors replaced at 65,000 and 122,000 miles and the cost was over $4,500 for one and over $8,000 for the other as it included new head gaskets. I can buy an entire rebuilt V-8 gas engine for that amount and have it installed. I find it a little difficult to understand why people will buy a diesel and then have to kid themselves that they are saving money in the process. Why is this so important to their egos? Why get emotionally involved with a truck?

caissiel · 05-28-2014, 07:48 PM

I was told the same stories when I bought my first diesel 22 years ago.
That first one paid for our first RV in fuel savings alone. Since then a used or new diesel has never let me down.
I don't run to the dealer, as I just follow the maintenance recommendation and drive and tow in comfort.
Just bought 5 gallons of oil for $56 and it will do 1 1/2 oil changes and a $17 filter. The oil for the past 3 oil changes was as clean as the oil from our Toyota. I am still not sure why the car gets so black but the diesel oil is surprisingly clean after over 8000 miles of towing the 15500# trailer. I worked as a maintenance super and still don't believe in changing diesel oil prematurely specially if the filter does a good job. It might be the result of a great programmer. Diesel trucks are best when they work hard and I surely get the good result of pushing it to the max.