Diesel vs Gasoline

[jjackrash]

Originally Posted by 09 harley

That sounds like a generalization.

Fair enough. My 2010 GM 2500 with a 6.0L gasser screamed at me as soon as I hooked it up a 10/11k travel trailer to and drove up the hill to my folks house 2 miles from the dealer. I didn't like where I knew it was going to tow in the power band on most hills so traded it in on a diesel the next week and could not be happier. My dad's motor home with a V-10 gas Ford is the exact same way; I feel like its screaming at me on pretty much any significant hill.

I'll also add that I understand it is personal preference. My dad likes the sound of a gas engine working and could not be happier with the Ford V-10. He's not wrong, and neither am I; it is just personal preference and my perception of the towing experience.

[ttavasc]

I think the newer gas trucks are quieter inside than even just a few years ago. I know our new '19 F-250 6.2L is noticeably quieter than our previous '14 RAM 1500 5.7L was, especially at higher rpm. For our current needs gas was the better choice but I wouldn't rule out a diesel if our needs change in the future.

[tuffr2]

Screaming gas engines were a thing, no doubt. In 2011 I bought a 5.0 litre F-150. This engine in theory should have been a screamer...but it was not. It was smooth and powerful. The 3.5 litre Eco-Boost is not a screaming engine either. My 5.0 would rev to smooth 4,000rpm without a scream.

My 2017 F-250 6.2 Boss engine is not a screaming engine either.

No doubt the Ford 6.8 V-10 is a screamer. Man, is it a screamer. Just test drive any Motorhome with the Ford V-10.

It will be interesting to see the GM 6.6 and the new Ford 7.3 litre gassers. I doubt either engine will be a screamer.

[Wildbuckaroo]

Originally Posted by kendall69

A few things. My guess would be that 99% of the Diesels made all over the world are daily driver and "grocery getters" so to imply that one needs to get a gas vehicle unless they tow 30,000 every day across the country is ludicrous.

I've driven Diesels for the last 30 years from Mercedes, to the GM Diesel 6.3. Ford 6.4, Gm Duramax twice and now the Ford 6.7 and in all those years the largest repair I ever had was injectors in the Sprinter Mercedes and it was covered under California emission laws for free.

You can tell most of these engines were the worst diesels ever made, but if you do proper oil changes you will have zero problems like I did. even the Ford 6.4 that peopel complain about.


I understand you have been an auto technician for 42 years but since the first diesel made back in Germany in 1893 and it ran on peanut oil there have been billions of diesel engines made and if they were as bad as you intimate they would stop making them.

Now let's talk Ford. From the day it was released, the 6.7L Power Stroke was a hit. By September 2013, the 500,000th version had already been produced at the Chihuahua, Mexico engine plant.

Seriously if these were bad engines would they have built a half million of them.

Again most of these are used by grocery getters that tow on weekends of a few times a year with zero to little problems.

After the uphill battle Ford faced due to the design flaws and endless warranty claims associated with the 6.0L and 6.4L engines, the company brought its diesel engine program in-house for the 6.7L Power Stroke. For the first time, Ford had full say in the oil-burner that would power its ¾-ton and larger trucks. Prior to that, they were built by others.

Lastly for a few thousand dollars when buying a new for you can drive worry-free by buying a dealer extra warranty coverage to 150K.

Just saying this brand of that brand did or didn't come into your shop means nothing. What I want to know is the maintenance records of these vehicles and how each driver drove the vehicle and no one has that info.

Once I purchased my diesel vehicles none ever returned back to the dealer or any other shop except for the injectors in the Mercedes.

That is great you have had such good luck with your vehicles, if everyone had the same luck as you there would be no need for a diesel mechanic lol. I'm simply just stating what I've seen in my shop over the last 20 years and we have made a lot of money fixing diesel engines and still do. Now where I live we have subzero temperatures.

[joesesto]

Originally Posted by consolenut

Transmission retarder or grade braking is equivilant to an exhaust brake. .

My Silverado 3500 Duramax seems to have both some kind of transmission retarder and the exhaust brake. The manual says the retarder is only effective at 35 mph or below. So I have never used that feature.


I don't even know how the exhaust brake works, but if the rig picks up speed downhill...I just tap the brake pedal and it slows down a little more each time until it gets to my comfort zone speed. The cruise control cannot handle it.


To me thst alone is the best selling point of diesel. I don't believe I will recover the $9k diesel penalty in fuel savings until there is at least 50,000 on the odometer. I could not care less. I don't care either about the added resale as I have no intention to sell it.


Someone posted that it was a matter of personal preference. I agree, but having all the torque and fuel savings are still a nice bonus. And in 4 years and visiting 36 of the lower 48 states I have spent $0 outside oil change and fuel filters for maintenance. But it only goes on long trips...never in between except for wash/wax.


Joe Sesto

[Cowpie1]

I am not sure one can ever recover the cost in terms of fuel. Diesel in my area right now is $3.04. I filled up my Chevy 2500 the other day with E85 for $1.89 a gallon. I average about 11-12 mpg on E85 for all miles. For a diesel 2500 to break even on the cost per mile, it would have at average 18-19 mpg for all miles, not just highway miles. That is possible in the right hands, but again, that is only breakeven on a cost per mile basis with what I get using E85 in my gasser. My on highway MPG using E85 exclusively on a 2000 mile round trip (no trailer) last year came in at about 13.75 MPG. At the current price, the diesel 2500 woulda have to average 22-23 MPG highway. Again, realistic, but again, that is just break even.

So, to recover $9K - $10K in cost premium for the diesel, it probably will never happen. Even if one could run the diesel and the fuel cost per mile was 2 cents per mile lower than the gasser, it would be more like 500,000 miles before recovering the cost of the diesel. And we still haven't factored in the additional costs the diesel has that the gasser doesn't.

I will acknowledge that diesel can be more pleasurable in some instances. But the gasser is not so unpleasurable to cause me to separate more of my money from my wallet. I even have a Magnaflow 3.5" in and out performance muffler on my 2500 gasser and all I hear is the remembrance of days gone by in the 60's and 70's muscle car era. A pleasant experience compared to the past 5 million miles of listening to the heavy diesels in my semi trucks rumble along at 1400 RPM.

[Itchytoe]

There's quite a bit of talk in this thread about the fuel efficiency of a diesel paying for the premium cost of the engine. I just want to point out, that if you purchased or are considering a diesel because the fuel savings would end up making it cost less, you're doing it wrong. Diesel used to be cheaper than gasoline. That's just not the case anymore.



Just sayin'

[kendall69]

Originally Posted by Wildbuckaroo

That is great you have had such good luck with your vehicles, if everyone had the same luck as you there would be no need for a diesel mechanic lol. I'm simply just stating what I've seen in my shop over the last 20 years and we have made a lot of money fixing diesel engines and still do. Now where I live we have subzero temperatures.

It's all about perspective. I bet you also made EVEN MORE money fixing gas vehicles.
If diesels were so bad then why does every over the road truck you see have a diesel.
If diesels were so bad then why does every FIRE truck you see have a diesel.
If diesels were so bad then why does every Hot shot driver have a diesel.

"if everyone had the same luck as you there would be no need for a diesel mechanic lol".....I've has the same "luck" with over 20 gas vehicles I've owned over the years. Like I said It's all about how you drive a vehicle and how you maintain it.

I'll bet you made money fixing diesel, but to quanify your statement I would need to know how these people drove their vehicles, how they maintained them etc so we are all accurate with our assumptions that diesels are "less dependable" than gas vehicles.

Go to various disel sites most have a section "how many miles on your vehicle" and look at those numbers. 600K 800K etc. The Sprinter site has a list of high milage diesels more than I have ever seen with any gas vehicle.

[joesesto]

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

So, to recover $9K - $10K in cost premium for the diesel, it probably will never happen. Even if one could run the diesel and the fuel cost per mile was 2 cents per mile lower than the gasser, it would be more like 500,000 miles before recovering the cost of the diesel. And we still haven't factored in the additional costs the diesel has that the gasser doesn't.

If you are referring to my post, we may be comparing apple to peanuts. I gross out ar 12,000# the rig is 12' tall with Z71 4WD. I average 13.6 mpg and never travel over 62 mph. I've been told the same gasser in my 2015 Silverado 3500 Dbl Cab Z71 4WD with the same load would avg about 9mpg by their owners. I calculate 735 gals/10,000 miles cost $2125 @ $2.89/gal. Premium @$3.33 and 9mpg burns 1111 gals or $3700/10000 miles...a $1575 difference every 10,000 miles...or $9k in 57000 miles. I did not figure in DEF.


$1575/10000 miles = $.1575/mile....far more than $.02/mile.


Obviously that will vary as crude prices raise and lower, but most of my miles have be in mountainous western and eastern states. I see mid-14s in the Plain states. I have not been to New England or Florida, yet.


But I've been thru Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, Vegas, Salt Lake, Kansas City, Omaha, etc. So far I have skirted the large cities on the Atlantic Coast and in the Southeast.


My biggest problem is it takes 400 miles getting out of California. It adds almost $1/gal to either fuel.


Joe Sesto

[tuffr2]

Do not forget you recoup 75% of the diesel cost when you sell/trade in. I had a 2012 diesel that I traded. I calculated that I recovered $6,000 out of the $8,000 I paid extra for the diesel engine.

My net cost of the diesel turns out to be $2,000 not $8,000.

I got the use of a diesel engine for 6.5 years for $2,000. Not too shabby.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by joesesto

If you are referring to my post, we may be comparing apple to peanuts. I gross out ar 12,000# the rig is 12' tall with Z71 4WD. I average 13.6 mpg and never travel over 62 mph. I've been told the same gasser in my 2015 Silverado 3500 Dbl Cab Z71 4WD with the same load would avg about 9mpg by their owners. I calculate 735 gals/10,000 miles cost $2125 @ $2.89/gal. Premium @$3.33 and 9mpg burns 1111 gals or $3700/10000 miles...a $1575 difference every 10,000 miles...or $9k in 57000 miles. I did not figure in DEF.


$1575/10000 miles = $.1575/mile....far more than $.02/mile.


Obviously that will vary as crude prices raise and lower, but most of my miles have be in mountainous western and eastern states. I see mid-14s in the Plain states. I have not been to New England or Florida, yet.


But I've been thru Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, Vegas, Salt Lake, Kansas City, Omaha, etc. So far I have skirted the large cities on the Atlantic Coast and in the Southeast.


My biggest problem is it takes 400 miles getting out of California. It adds almost $1/gal to either fuel.


Joe Sesto

The true gas pulling engine is the 6.0, not the 6.2. The 6.0 uses regular.

[GoLeafsGo]

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

I am not sure one can ever recover the cost in terms of fuel. Diesel in my area right now is $3.04. I filled up my Chevy 2500 the other day with E85 for $1.89 a gallon. I average about 11-12 mpg on E85 for all miles. For a diesel 2500 to break even on the cost per mile, it would have at average 18-19 mpg for all miles, not just highway miles. That is possible in the right hands, but again, that is only breakeven on a cost per mile basis with what I get using E85 in my gasser. My on highway MPG using E85 exclusively on a 2000 mile round trip (no trailer) last year came in at about 13.75 MPG. At the current price, the diesel 2500 woulda have to average 22-23 MPG highway. Again, realistic, but again, that is just break even.

So, to recover $9K - $10K in cost premium for the diesel, it probably will never happen. Even if one could run the diesel and the fuel cost per mile was 2 cents per mile lower than the gasser, it would be more like 500,000 miles before recovering the cost of the diesel. And we still haven't factored in the additional costs the diesel has that the gasser doesn't.

I will acknowledge that diesel can be more pleasurable in some instances. But the gasser is not so unpleasurable to cause me to separate more of my money from my wallet. I even have a Magnaflow 3.5" in and out performance muffler on my 2500 gasser and all I hear is the remembrance of days gone by in the 60's and 70's muscle car era. A pleasant experience compared to the past 5 million miles of listening to the heavy diesels in my semi trucks rumble along at 1400 RPM.

You'll never recover the cost of 3-ply toilet paper over 1-ply either. Some people are okay with paying more for a better user experience.

[Captn John]

Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo

You'll never recover the cost of 3-ply toilet paper over 1-ply either. Some people are okay with paying more for a better user experience.

[walt_embree]

“Oh my! Based on this thread, and the other 100 gas vs. diesel threads a year on this forum, I’ve changed my opinion about the engine I just bought...” said NO ONE EVER!

OP: IMO, you’d be far better off coming to a complete—and comprehensive—understanding of GVW, GVWR, GCVWR, tow ratings, hitch weight ratings, and the full spectrum of trailer weight limitations first. I believe you could be very surprised that 2500/3500 trucks may not actually be as capable as the advertising and numbers suggest when all factors and ratings are charted out. When you get a handle on the REAL weight numbers and capabilities, chances are the right engine/transmission/gear ratios for you and your trailer will be decided for you.

Human Strides: 1) Harnessing Fire; 2) The wheel; 3) Rationalization of our purchasing decisions.